News

Any red flags in these pictures? "recently restored" Rolex - CL seller

Discussion in 'Fine Watches, Jewelry, & Clothes' started by FarmerDave, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Jul 26, 2004
    15,025
    Full Name:
    IgnoranteWest
    He says "Fully Restored." The seller has not yet responded to my emails yesterday.

    Rolex GMT Master II Fat Lady 16760

    I really fancy a Pepsi GMT and this seems like a fair deal, especially if I can partially trade some guns that are just sitting around not being used.

    I have not seen enough of these in person so I am wondering if anything looks amiss.

    The thing that stand out to me is the sides look maybe over-polished? Or is this typical of a watch that has been overhauled? Or do I just not know what to look for?

    Any red flags about the watch itself that you can spot?
     
  2. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 18, 2005
    12,334
    Wellington, FL
    Full Name:
    Duane
    I've never seen a Rolex with visible pins holding the bracelet to the body of the watch.
     
  3. definitelysomeday

    definitelysomeday Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2009
    590
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Full Name:
    Tom Kavan
    If it is a GMT II, I think it should be a red and black bezel. I don't know that the bezel inserts are interchangeable.

    Drilled case holes for the pins IS proper for this model.

    Look closely at the paint on the hour marker dots - some of it looks sloppy

    The sides of the watch should be polished, but applying the "factory finish" is an art. When you look at the watch in person, you will tell if it is over polished because the metal will look almost wavy (they cut too heavily to make it shine).
     
  4. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
    247
    Difficult to fully confirm a watches authenticity from a few low quality photos. I am not sure what the seller means by "fully restored"- could be interpreted in different ways.
    I agree, the pin holes for the bracket are correct for the time of when the 16760 was manufactured, new Rolex's now do not have these holes visible, Cant remember the change over year roughly circa 2010ish....
    The 16760 watches were only available red/black, see this web site GMT Master History.
    Does it have the box and papers?? I think it is important for them to be present and should be for that price.....
     
  5. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
    247
    Hope that helps?
     
  6. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    10,213
    GMT -6
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Ok, so first of all "yes" there are some red flags. Here is what I see.

    1) That bezel is an aftermarket bezel. Look at the top of the 2's. See how the top sticks out farther to the left than the bottom base of the 2? That is a telltale sign of an aftermarket bezel.
    2) a re-lumed dial makes it worth less, not more. Factory dial with the lume falling off is better than a refinished dial which is what that is. It is not a replacement dial, it is a refinished dial. Big difference and not good.
    3) That is an "open 6" date wheel which would not be correct for that model. So it is either wrong, or more likely an aftermarket date disc sold on Ebay by wholesaleoutlet in Conroe, TX.
    4) Those are not the original hands for that watch.

    Ask what the serial number is. If they don't know, or won't tell you, run away.

    Considering how many aftermarket or non original parts are on it I would likely pass unless it was really cheap. And then I'd only buy it if the seller would agree to letting you spin the back off to verify the movement.
     
  7. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 14, 2003
    58,499
    In front of you
    Full Name:
    BCHC
    Suggest meeting him at an AD and have them open it up?

    If he balks then you'll know and if he meets, the dealer will tell you.
     
  8. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
    247
    I see what you mean about the bezel and the 2's, I thought there was something wrong apart from the colour way but couldn't put my finger on it.
    The open 6 would indicate its an earlier movement but I think the dial is correct as the 16760 was the first GMT with white gold indices borders.
    What is wrong with the hands, I have been looking but cant see what is wrong with them??
    Seems like this is a watch to miss though...
    Thanks,
    Richard
     
  9. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    10,213
    GMT -6
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Older or vintage Rolexs are all about "wearability" versus "collectability".
    There is a big difference between the two. There isn't anything wrong with a non correct watch as long as what you want is a cool watch to wear, which is what the one we're taking about is. From a collectability standpoint this one has problems. But that doesn't make it a bad watch it just makes it one that isn't a collector piece.
    My GMT is a pointed crown guards version which is very rare. If it had the original dial it would be worth a gazillion dollars. Unfortunately the original gilt dial was replaced sometime in the 1980's. As it sits it is worth 10k less than if it had the original dial.

    Nothing wrong with this watch it just isn't what it is described as.
     
  10. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    10,213
    GMT -6
    Full Name:
    Dave
    By the way Duane all 15xx, all 16xx, and all 55xx models have lug holes. Lug holes = higher price when it comes to rolex watches because they are vintage.
     
  11. netman

    netman Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jun 17, 2008
    1,883
    OC SoCal
    Pictures and ad have been removed. Biggest red flag of all if not sold.
     
  12. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
    247
    Yes, I agree with the wear ability / collectability pov. You said the watch had the incorrect hands, what is incorrect about them? I would like to know.
    Probably not the correct thread, but can you post a photo of your GMT?

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
  13. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    10,213
    GMT -6
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Take a look here Rich and you'll see
    Watch Hand for Rolex GMT Aged 1675 16750 16753 16758 Gold | eBay
    and
    Hands to Fit Rolex GMT Caliber 1530/1570 - Silver Color $12.95 Watch Hands Buy Watch Parts and Watch Repair Kits Supply Online - Los Angeles

    The answer about posting a picture is "yes". I like nice watches and have a few but frankly I'm not like a lot of the guys here who wear a $15k or $20k watch every day. My GMT spends most of its time in the safe. I'm sending it to the guys at ABC in LA for service soon. When I get it out of the safe I'll post a picture.
     
  14. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Jul 26, 2004
    15,025
    Full Name:
    IgnoranteWest
    Thank you for all the tips, I've been on the road since Thursday for the holiday.

    I sent the seller a couple of emails but the CL ad has disappeared and he never responded, so I guess it has been sold.

    But, all these notes will help as I shop for another!
     
  15. richjar

    richjar Karting

    Oct 20, 2009
    247
    Okay, I see what you mean now, thanks.
    Yes, I like watches, and have a few but my daily wear is a Tag Heuer F1 Gulf Edition.
    Cheers,
    Rich
     
  16. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 18, 2005
    12,334
    Wellington, FL
    Full Name:
    Duane
    Cool, I didn't know that. My Rolex are newer, neither has the lug holes.
     
  17. robert_c

    robert_c F1 Rookie

    May 12, 2005
    3,363
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Robert C
  18. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    10,213
    GMT -6
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Thanks for the lead. There was one gilt dial posted last fall but the ad had been deleted. It was $4900 :eek:
     

Share This Page