Any window gap gurus out there? | FerrariChat

Any window gap gurus out there?

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by tbjo1, Mar 20, 2022.

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  1. tbjo1

    tbjo1 Rookie

    Nov 27, 2021
    45
    Oslo, Norway
    Full Name:
    Torstein B
    I’ve spent a few weekends trying to sort out the window gap on my 94’ 456GT. Many hours and one shattered window later, the status is as follows: passenger side window is now perfect. So satisfying! Daniel’s steel bolts did the trick, whole thing looks like new really. (Thanks Daniel!!!)

    The driver side is a different story, but for a weird reason. After about two days of trial and error, I managed to get the gap down to what I would call acceptable. The difference between driver side and passages side is simply due to so much more wear and tear on the mechanism on the driver side I think, and possibly because I was a bit more careless when drilling out the old bolt on this side. But anyway, after several hours of trying, the gap is now so small that I doubt any rain will ever get in, and I could always just tape it up when pressure washing.

    However, the fit towards the B pillar rubber gasket is super tight, making the window’s journey to the top a few seconds slower when the door is closed. It was really painful to watch because it traveled so slow. And then the mechanism suddenly gave in, and one of the plastic sliders (the stationary one) popped out from it’s lifting arm, making the whole window slide out of its rail. My heart skipped a beat as I thought the window was going to break (again!!).

    So my question is this: What black magic do I have to summon to be able to adjust the window’s tightness towards the B pillar gasket? I feel like I’ve tried all the various adjustments a million times, even adding four washers on the top adjustment for the back slider, to push the back slider outward, away from the b pillar rubber gasket.

    Anybody else experienced similar issues while fixing the window gap??
     
    F456M likes this.
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,057
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    On the 456M they completely redesigned, among other things to door seal. The GT has much less give to it. They did make a retrofit seal for the GT replicating as well as possible the positive features of the M seal. I have long ago quit even trying to make the windows fit without the updated seals. I just looked and I am not sure they are still available. My old parts book and the current listed part are the same number. The new design seals may have gone the same route as the door update program.
     
    tbjo1 likes this.
  3. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
    362
    Holland
    Full Name:
    Bart
    Is the aft of the window exactly parallel to the B-pillar? (or is the window tilted a bit aft?)
    I spend a lot of time in this area as well, including breaking a window, and ended up refabricating the mechanisms including an additional pivot point so I can now align the window to the pillar. Makes life so much easier!
     
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  4. tbjo1

    tbjo1 Rookie

    Nov 27, 2021
    45
    Oslo, Norway
    Full Name:
    Torstein B
    I believe the window glass is tilted a bit back (i.e towards the inside of the cabin) and not exactly parallell to the B pillar. However; I'm not sure, as I wouldn't know how to check it? I'm only assuming as it's pressing quite firmly towards the B pillar rubber gasket when being elevated, slowing down the window elevator quite a bit compared to when being raised when the door is open (and therefore no pressure from the B pillar gasket is being exercised on it)

    How did you break your window? I'd love to know to make sure I don't do the same. I'm literally scared of experimenting with the whole mechanism now after breaking one myself. But I broke it tightening one of the bolts in one of the fittings too tight, the fittings that secure the glass to the elevator.. Stupid mistake maybe, but at the same time scary to know that it is actually possible to break the whole thing with the tightening of a screw.

    And lastly; I'd love to know where you added this pivot point? That sounds exactly like what I need to do!
     
    F456M likes this.
  5. tbjo1

    tbjo1 Rookie

    Nov 27, 2021
    45
    Oslo, Norway
    Full Name:
    Torstein B
    @franschman Sorry now I understand what you mean - you mean whether its parallell or aft as in aft towards the rear of the car. I'll have to check that. However, lifting the glass upwards in the front part so it tilts more aft has actually kind of been what I've been trying to do all along as I guess that's what removes the window gap.. but that specific adjustment option is the only one not available as far as I've seen. But ironically my window gap is not acceptable, and the problem is the tightness towards the gasket (i.e tight towards the cabin of the car)
     
  6. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
    362
    Holland
    Full Name:
    Bart
    My window broke when I thought I was finally done ajusting and tightened the aft bolt that holds the slider. It banged into a million pieces. The 'new' window was slightly different shape and didn't quite fit in the position I had finally reached for the original window, so the process started again. After I made the replacement mechanisms, adjustment was easy and a 10 minute job. To make sure the window wouldn't break again I inserted stainless steel spacer bushings inside the plastic, to prevent myself from overtightening. Nevertheless final tightening was a bit nerve wrecking; I tightened it just enough to get the slack out and secured the screws with locktite.
     
    tbjo1 likes this.
  7. tbjo1

    tbjo1 Rookie

    Nov 27, 2021
    45
    Oslo, Norway
    Full Name:
    Torstein B
    That is exactly how I broke my window :)

    but what about this new pivot point you mentioned, where did you put that?
     
  8. franschman

    franschman Formula Junior

    Dec 18, 2017
    362
    Holland
    Full Name:
    Bart
    See here: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/456-window-mechanism-remake.634311/

    Although a few people expressed interest in a set it was not tempting enough for me to start producing a series of mechanisms. But since this is a recurring problem on all 456s, it might be worthwile.
    One thing I don't know is to what extend these mechanisms would fit the 456 derivatives (456M, 550, 575). Mine was designed for a non-M 456. It might well be that while on these other cars the mechanism looks similar, the arm lengths or angles are slightly different rendering my replacement useless.
     
    tbjo1 likes this.
  9. tbjo1

    tbjo1 Rookie

    Nov 27, 2021
    45
    Oslo, Norway
    Full Name:
    Torstein B
    I read the thread now @franschman , incredible work!! Surprised I haven’t seen that thread before considering all the time I spent trying to figure this out. Anyway; If you would be interested in making one more driver side set of lifter arms I’d be VERY interested in buying!!
     
  10. Davidspop

    Davidspop Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2019
    401
    Full Name:
    Lance Malcolm
    If @franschman is interested in building and selling these, I'd be interested too!

    I replaced the center pivot on mine and achieved a pretty good gap but not where I want it..
     
    carguy246 and tbjo1 like this.
  11. AMIRL

    AMIRL Rookie

    May 21, 2022
    11
    Full Name:
    -
     
  12. AMIRL

    AMIRL Rookie

    May 21, 2022
    11
    Full Name:
    -
    This is great information. I have Daniel’s bolts and the window gap, but my current regulator connection looks tight so I’m reluctant to replace.

    Is there anything I can do to check to see if it could be a problem, before I remove the regulator? I currently have my door card removed with access to all of the mechanical pieces. The door seems to go up straight, but then when I close it, it shifts forward to increase the window gap.
     
  13. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    13,956
    MO
    Full Name:
    Omar
    For my misaligned driver window on my 99 M, I had planned to send them to F Imports & Exotics who reportedly does the best for the regulator/track repair (unless something changed).

    https://fimportsandexotics.com/specialties
     
  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,147
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Nope, they are the best.
     

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