anybody fly gliders before they started there privot pilot training, like me? | FerrariChat

anybody fly gliders before they started there privot pilot training, like me?

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by imported_brian, Feb 13, 2007.

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  1. imported_brian

    Jan 12, 2007
    7
    Well by the looks of things this site is struggling to keep up the traffic? I recieved an e-mail telling me to revisit the site once a week, so here i am hoping to communicate with the many talented poeple on this site!!Anyway, back to basics, when i was visiting and taking introductory flights at many flight schools i'll admit i was a bit intimidated .Without any direction and so many bad stories of making sure you choose the rite school!!I always noticed when i was a kid, a little north of me in cavecreek, az.there was a glider port and thought that was a great way to just get the basics of flight down before being overwhelmed with too much info at once, not actualy enjoying the introductory flights just worried about if i could keep up with all the demands of just flying a cessna-172-, long story short, felt comfortable in the air with just a few lessons in the schweiser-gliders-eventualy went on to enroll in a flight school, and am now in a down time period due to financial reasons...of course......anybody relate to gliders or financial and whats the deal with only sallymay giving out loans? nobody wants to touch them or what?....any info on these subjects would be enlightning and helpful..........
     
  2. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    I didn't fly gliders before getting my powered aircraft training but I was able to get time in a sailplane about, humm, let's say about 20 years ago and I enjoyed every minute of it. It was a two place Polish Il-26 and I had never experienced silent flight and the efficiency of a clean aerodynamic machine that gave you the feeling of true flight. I was up for two and a half hours and after years and years of powered flight, I finally knew what real flying was. If I had had the money I would have joined the gang that flew out of that field in the mountains. There is nothing like it and I recommend it to anyone.
    Switches
     
  3. imported_brian

    Jan 12, 2007
    7
    THATS SOUNDS LIKE ALOT OF FUN, WHAT EXACTLY IS A SAIL PLANE? AND DO YOU THINK HAVING A GLIDER RATING HELPS IN THE AID OF POWERED FLIGHT? IT FELT ALOT MORE COMFORTABLE TO ME KNOWING WITHOUT POWER I MIGHT BE ABLE TO CONTROL AN AIRCRAFT IN AN EMERGENCY A LITTLE MORE EFFICIANTLY KNOWING IVE MADE SEVERAL ONE CHANCE LANDINGS IN A GLIDER SUCCESFULLY!RATHER THAN HAVING NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL GLIDING AN AIRCRAFT WITHOUT POWER!DO YOU FLY FOR A LIVING?
     
  4. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    I would highly recommend some experience in a glider or sailplane before powered flight training. It will instill more confidence in your ability to fly an airplane when that noise stops up front and put your attention to manuevering instead of panic after an engine failure. Case in point of the Air Canada 767 pilot who ran out of fuel and glided his 767 to a safe landing at an abandoned airfield. He was also a sailplane pilot and enthusiast and knew how to manage the energy of his airplane as he made his descent to safe landing. A glider does what its name implies, it always glides down from its point of release due to a fairly low L/D ( lift/ drag) ratio, like 10 to 1 or less. The sailplane can do what its name implies. It can lift on thermals and sail around sometimes all day because it has an L/D....something like 55 to 1. What that is in plain english is the ability to fly forward 55 feet for every foot of drop due to ol' Mother Gravity and the drag of the airplane. It does this at a fairly low speed, too, like 55 MPH. I flew for over two hours by seeking ridge lift or thermals out over the valley. The airplane had an audible variometer and as soon as we encountered a thermal the variometer started beeping. The faster beep indicated a stronger thermal because we were rising faster. When we wanted to move to search for another thermal, we depressed the nose slightly and the speed jumped immediately to 80-85 MPH without loosing much altitude. This is what the term " High Performance " means, not a gazillion horsepower but a finely designed machine that makes efficient use of physics and natural forces. I would definetly get some powerles flight training. It will make you a better pilot and you will have a blast.
    Switches
     
  5. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    I didn't answer your last question, Brian. No, I don't fly for a living. I'm retired from Boeing after 40 plus years. I flew for the fun of it. First flight was in 1934 in an Aeronca C-2 and I just flew because I liked it. I did air shows in the 60's and 70's doing a clown act with a friend. I restored an L-3 and flew that around for a while. I'm almost 81 and have been grounded by a small stroke but I still like to fly with friends. I can still do straight and level!
     
  6. imported_brian

    Jan 12, 2007
    7
    i felt the same way about knowing how to actualy fly something without power. very interesting to hear about the canadian pilot in the 767! wow! did he land it successfully without damage to the plane or passangers?...thats inspiring to know that maybe i was doing the rite thing by learning the real basics before jumping into a carreer as a pilot, i know my experience with gliders will ultimately favor me in the long run of things to come ....hopefully!! they shut down the glider port i was learning at due to insurence reasons or something....anyway im on the list when they re-open!! sorry to hear about your stroke, my mother recently had a major stroke at 52 and is slowly recovering, and things are looking better.........do you still fly?
     
  7. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    The pilot made a good landing on a closed runway that was being used for a
    drag strip. He almost did it without damage but he hit a barricade and knocked the nose gear off. I fly with my son and friends now.
     
  8. Skyraider

    Skyraider Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    620
    Hi Brian,

    And I don't fly for a living either. But I will in the near future.
    I'm just a little bit younger than Switches.


    I started, back in 1963, in a small town in Germany. Had a couple of flights in a Schweizer 2-32 glider, and was hooked on flying. I joined a German glider club, and flew alot of weekends, when I wasn't on Duty ( US Military )
    After my discharge I again flew for a short time, in the mid 70's.
    I Had about maybe 20-25 hours in gliders, when I started flight training.
    I will say this, I didn't have any qualms about being in the air,
    either when I was gliding, or in powered craft. The sky and I were like one. But I too had some financial considerations, and had to stop, powered flight training.

    Then Life, a wife, and 3 kids, got in the way ( Not necessarily in that order)
    I had to quit all the lessons.
    I recently resumed flight training, after 30 plus years of abstinance and a
    divorce.
    It was as if I had never stopped flying. Old skills were still with me,
    (OK! OK! ......A Bit rusty, ...but still there.)

    I solo'd in August, 2006. Doing the final work for the Pilot license now.
    After which I'll get my Instrument rating, and then my Commercial certificate, then ....... I look forward to becoming a flight Instructor.

    Just remember... The propeller, is only to get you up there... :) :) ;)
    Flying with an engine allows you to stay up longer ....sometimes.

    Charles Atger of France flew an Arsenal Air 100 glider for 56h 15m on 2 April 1952 at Romanin les Alpilles near Saint-Rémy-de-Provence in France.

    That's two and one third days!!

    1931 Walter Edwin Lees and Frederick Brossy: Flew 84 hours and 33 minutes for a non-refueling airplane flight. At Jacksonville Beach Fla.
    Just a little more.

    Have no worries about flying without power.

    Although it can happen, today's engines are VERY reliable, except for when you don't put in enough gasoline, or try to run on the empty tank... :)

    Your Instructor, will make sure that you are proficient, in all the necessary skills, before he will let you fly all by yourself.

    What you are experiencing now, is what I call the fear of the unknown.
    Right now you don't know what to do in an engine out situation.
    The lack of knowlege, is what the issue is. Once you learn the procedures,
    you'll feel alot better.

    But for now, just concentrate on learning all you can, visiting websites, reading books, etc.

    Here are a few to look at.


    http://flighttraining.aopa.org/student_pilot/presolo/airmanship/

    http://flighttraining.aopa.org/index.cfm?priority=SX04AWS

    http://faasafety.gov/

    http://www.mywrittenexam.com/mwe/login/

    http://www.whittsflying.com/

    http://www.whittsflying.com/

    That ought to hold you for a while.... :)

    Study basic aerodynamics, Weather, and navigation.

    You'll be in the pilot seat soon.!

    Good Luck!
     
  9. SWITCHESOFF

    SWITCHESOFF Formula Junior

    Nov 9, 2005
    582
    Good stuff, Skyraider
     
  10. imported_brian

    Jan 12, 2007
    7
    wow, awsome info, thank you...i miss flying the gliders since the port shut down, waiting to hear from them soon....anyway i was afraid of the down time, and what knowlegde i learned would be lost, but you said it all came back to you? my flight school was quite expensive, but compared to the cheaper school it was sooo worth the extra money, the positive envirement at the acadamy was like night and day in comparison......alot of the instuctors were getting hired for regonal jobs and infact my instructor was hired on last month to regonal airline ! i was inspired to say the least!! so things dont look so bad from an outsiders point of view.i have my first class medical ..... thats the first thing i did, and have about 25 hrs or so in powered flight, and around 20 or so in the schweizers-gliders-hoping to start in the acadamy again soon! with a mortgage and a daughter and not any dispensible cash its a bit tricky!eventualy hoping one day i will get to fly the awsome new V L J'S I SEE EVERYDAY FLYING FROM THE AIRPORT I LITERALY WORK BEHIND!THATS HOW I USUSALY SPEND MY LUNCH HOURS.......DROOLING, ANYWAY WHAT DO YOU FLY NOW?........HAVE YOU FLOWN A CIRRUS YET.?.......AND THE NEW GLASS COCKPITS SEEM PRETTY COOL!
     
  11. Skyraider

    Skyraider Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    620
    #11 Skyraider, Feb 16, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks guys.

    Those... are the links I use to keep my training a step above "Just Passing".
    Any training, is only as good as the student's effort to learn.
    I also have credits for the FAA's "Wings "program: Phase 1.

    http://www.aopa.org/asf/wings/


    Brian,
    Yes, it actually never left me. I did keep a hand in flying, whenever I could.
    I was the first purchaser of MS flight Simulator ... :)
    (uh huh... sure I was...)

    I also got " Janes ....USNF97" and the myriad of DOS flight games, such as "Attack squadron", "Jet Pilot",
    and my favorite, "Aces High" which could be played online, against other combatants.
    Never had any luck with "X-Plane" though... Just couldn't get it to run right, or sometimes, even run at all!.

    I also did some time in an full motion F-16 simulator that used something similar to
    the "IMAX" method of projection, using real flight films.
    It was still a game however, and time was $32.00/ hr.
    Each session, only lasted 8 minutes.
    So although I never really was at altitude, I was keeping up the hand-eye coordination.
    An old man, has to do something....to stay sharp... NO???

    I got a job, at an airport, in operations. I work next to Learjets, Cessna Citations,
    Piaggio P-180 Avanti, (a twin, push propeller driven, tapered wing, Italian styled Canard)
    Looks (BELOW) like something from James Bond's special effects dept...
    And there's the regular folk too, with their Pipers, and Cessna's,

    and ****** Rutan, "Long-EZ". (The small photo)

    Oh yeah, I fly on avg once/week... and have had better than five (Yes, 5!)
    Flight Instructors this time around. (Most, gone-Regional...too!)

    I also fly with other pilots/ and other students, +Instr., as a passenger. Some of it loggable, some not.

    I am already studying ahead, for my Instrument course. And have two friends
    already IFR enrolled, with whom I fly as "Safety Pilot" while they are "under the hood".
    They're still PIC tho... Too bad, ..... it's not loggable time for me.....

    Can't be too prepared..... I always say....:)
    Right now I fly Cessna 152's regularly, with an occasional 172 or a PA-28 Warrior, or a Mooney M20, flight.

    Ive flown a demo, ...IN... a Cirrus, and although it has all the bells and whistles that come
    with a Half Million Dollar plane, I'm not all that impressed.

    I like the Diamond DA-40 alot more. It too, is a all glass, four place composite, at about half the price of the Cirrus.
    So, Big deal... It doesn't have a ballistic chute...;)

    The Cirrus that crashed into an apartment house, flown by baseball pitcher
    Corey Liddle, had one... Alot of good it did him....:(

    and... I'm a between the legs stick, kinda guy.
    I like the throttle in my left hand too... and a canopy overhead...
    Just like them fighter guys...

    The glass cockpits are ....... ok... I guess,... but I spend more time looking outside the airplane,
    than I do looking at some artificial panel, that tells me the same thing.
    I can fly a computer ...AT HOME!! Don't need to spend "$$ Five+ digits" for one..

    (sigh)...
    Ok..I know I'm getting long winded here, cause my arm is cramping up on me........

    Now where's my "Tylenol PM".............?

    Till Later
    Skyraider.
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  12. bwassam

    bwassam Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2005
    635
    North Bend, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Robert Wassam
    Before I started flight training I had a twenty minute introductory flight in a glider. I liked it but didn't start flight training until many years later. When I started single engine flight training I would fly until I ran out of money and the sit back until the finances came around again, usually at the first of the month. It took me about a year and a half to get my single engine land license. So I have the other point of view.

    Yes, powerless flight will give a pilot inmeasureable experience and knowledge not just in engine out situations but also in setting up approaches to landings. However, that said, you can learn to fly without getting a glider license first. If your money is tight then I recommend just taking single engine flight training. It's cheaper than glider flying. It doesn't seem that way, but it is. I know this because I was going to take some glider lessons and was amazed at how expensive it was.

    During your flight training you'll do many engine out drills. One of the nice things about these drills is that you can get confortable with the gliding phase of flying and if you mis-judge the field (read, landing short) then you can add power and go around and try it again. I haven't heard of anyone catching a thermal in a single engine airplane, except motor gliders, to maintain flight. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    So, I think the bottom line is that you can learn to manage energy in a single engine airplane during engine out operations without taking glider lessons. If you want to split hairs I guess you could say that practicing engine out is a glider lesson, but it's really about managing flight during an engine out in an airplane that was designed to be flown with an engine.

    I do not fly for a living, and own a short body Mooney. Its glide ratio is near 10:1. I was doing engine out drills in it yesterday. It glides pretty well and I made the strip without having to add power. I pulled power over the airport at 2500 feet. I made several circles and at 1500 feet I entered the pattern and glided into land in an ordinary pattern.

    Most engine outs, not due to fuel starvation, occur when making changes to the engine settings. That is, reducing power after take off, or adjusting the air'fuel mixture, or something along those lines. Notice, I said "most," and not "all." So I don't like to reduce power after take off until I get enough altitude to make the turn and glide back to the strip. Now we have noise restrictions to deal with and sometimes we're forced to reduce power before we're ready. SOP is to know what you're going to do in the event of an engine out before you take off.

    Fly safe.

    Bob Wassam
     

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