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Anybody read "The China Study"? Cutting all animal protein..

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by brokenarrow, Jun 11, 2009.

  1. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

    Sep 25, 2006
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    It's really an incredible study put into text allowing you to peek inside Americans obsession with animal protein (chicken, cow, milk, etc..). The basis of the book is Americans consume significantly more animal protein (casein) than just about any other society on earth, and casein actually promotes any toxins that may be lying dormint in your body spawning cancerous cell growth. The higher the casein intake, the higher your chance of getting cancer, and they've proven this time and again with studies. This book has changed my life.

    I am a vegetarian now, eating plant produced food and have lost over ten pounds and have more energy than I can recall in years. I didn't pick up this book looking for a diet, nor was this bbq loving Texan looking for a reason to abandon meat. I didn't eat much red meat to begin with, but now I don't eat any. What has really shocked me is how my body has changed. I just feel better. It's not that I was unhealthy before because I always work out and watch what I eat, and I don't drink. I know what it is! I feel younger.

    This is not some book promotion either, but if you have some time, and are interested in your health, read some excerpts from it. It will down right stun you.

    I'll post some comments in the next few days as a sort of food for thought. And if you've read the book, please add to it.
     
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  3. sdtradingguy

    sdtradingguy Formula Junior
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    I've heard of this study for a few years. Always scares me when I read it as I eat lots of chicken and milk products. But, that usually fades in a day as I'm more scared of soy protein than animal proteins.

    I usually eat lots of nuts, whole grains, whey protein, and chicken. I try to eat lots of berries and other antioxidants to combat the free radicals.

    How are you getting your current protein? Nuts, grains, beans, soy...?
     
  4. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    The study does focus on the specific protien that is highly and directly correlated to a cancer precurser, foci. The protein, Casein (found in all animal proteins, including and especially milk), has been shown to specifically turn on and turn off the production of this precursor, whose daughter cells produce cancer. Here's the catch, we all have consumed toxins and they are in our bodies, either from pesticides, water or other consumed food. What it comes down to is does your body act on these toxins, does it consume them and produce cancerous cells? According to the study, the higher your protein intake, the more likely your chance of them "coming alive" and turning to cancer.

    However, when they used vegetable proteins (increased the intake up to 20% of the animal's diet--what Americans consume and what the rats were given on Casein), there was NO increase in foci, or in cancer related deaths. The rats lived their full 2 year life, and more actively and healthy than the ones on Casein that ALL died prematurely of CANCER.

    You have something right, in that berries and nuts are very powerful allies against illnesses, and even cancer. However, Casein is a powerful enemy and tends to find the toxins in your body and activate them. Casein is like a switch, it is capable of turning foci production on or off as it is introduced into the diet (from 5% level up to 20%).

    My former protein source was from Whey, which is taken from milk/cheese. It literally is Casein. I have switched to other sources of protein for my drinks, made primarily from peas and soy. Soy is known to contain a form of estrogen, so I am sure to measure my consumption. I already have a healthy chest and don't care for man breasts.

    What is important to know from protein consumption is we consume FAAAAAR more than the rest of the world, some 20% of our diet, and it makes up nearly 80% of our calories. In China, their protein consumption is less than half of ours, and makes up less than 20% of their calories. The point is we don't need that much protein. You can easily get by with 12-25 grams a day. I was consuming between 100-200 grams a day. No more. I always assumed I needed the extra protein because I lifted weights and needed to repair the damage I was causing during my hard lifting.

    Well, I'm still lifting and I'm getting leaner and stronger, with less protein. Who would have ever guessed this. I am also consuming less protein, and better protein, plant based protein. It's a hard change, let me tell you. I grit my teeth many times a day in making this change, but I swear I feel five years younger--and counting. I don't understand it, but it's real.

    I will post some information over the next several days to demonstrate our reliance on animal protein and its affects. We've all been snowed a long time by American commercialism; how much milk you should drink (I drink soy now), hamburger commercials, steak vs chicken, Atkins diet (what a bunch of bs--seriously, who thinks you can live like a shark or lion and live to be old with the digestive system of a vegetarian).

    Do you think the milk & dairy producers want you knowing about Casein? This information has been out there a long time, but who really wants to know the dirty little secrets. It's like the movie the Matrix; take the red pill, and never know--eat meat, sleep, and be happy. Take the green pill and find out just how far this thing goes---I took the green pill. Don't read if you don't want to know--ignorance is bliss. I'm giving the book to all those I love.



     
  5. TexasF355F1

    TexasF355F1 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    It is what it is. I'm going to continue eating what I eat. For every person who has consumed meat and died early, their are others who have eaten the same and lived a long life.

    My grandfather ate eggs, bacon and bisquits every day of his life and lived to be almost 80. I believe when he died male life expectancy was barely 70 years.

    I think bowel movements is one good indication of how well your body is working and flushing out toxins. Too many people sell the human body short at how well it works.

    If someone wants to not eat meat that's all cool with me. But when I start getting lectured I get annoyed. I'm not saying this was your true intention, but it does seem like you're trying to convert those of us who eat meat.

    You have to rememeber that most of us here are eating lots of fruits and veggies along side our meats.
     
  6. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

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    I do not feel that certain diets can be applied to everyone. Some people seem to function better off certain types and portions of specific foods. Your body does better with less animal protein... good for you.
     
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  8. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

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    I can't live a good life if I concern myself with having a 50% increased risk (from .0000000185% risk to .000000037% ) Cow is worth that increased risk IMHO :)

    Glad you are enjoying yourself doing it!
     
  9. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran

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    I have gone to a vegetarian diet and feel a whole lot better. 2 Months and I noticed a big difference.

    I gave up pork, beef and chicken and eat lots of seafood. I like to fish so its no problem. Not really an ethical thing for me or a pshycological ( fear) thing. I just like to cook that way, kind of a foodie and I love beans and tofu. I still eat bacon and Pho ( Viet Beef Soup) once a month. I am having chickpeas in a tomato and peanut sauce for lunch that is very good. Caught 100 lbs of shrimp with some friends yesterday and put that up in the freezer.

    I think ethnic background has something to do with it as I am Danish. Most Asians are lactose intolerant so beef, milk and cheese are out for them.
     
  10. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    It's not so much about longevity as it is quality.

    "Some like to justy ambivilance twoard health information. I take a different view. I have neve pursued health hoping or immortality. Good health is about being able to fully enjoy the time we do have. It is about being as functional as possible throughout our entire lives and avoiding crippling, painful and lengthy battles with disease." I am simply choosing another path. You are welcome to choose yours as well.

    I am interested in pushing the envelope of my health through knowledge. An knowledge is power, and knowing the affects of toxins and how they relate to protein I consume is important.

    Creating a debate is not my intent, but providing an opportunity for people to learn a little about the book and its contents. I'll share some facts that are pretty interesting.

    I had my children older than most, so naturally I want to live as healthy for as long as I can. I don't want to contract the most dreaded disease known to man, cancer. If I can reduce my chances, fantastic. And while genetics plays a role (no one in my family has died of cancer), it is a small one according to the studies presented in the book. We often think it's genes, but it really is the lifestyle you've inherited as well that may lead you down the path.
     
  11. brokenarrow

    brokenarrow F1 Rookie

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    EXAMPLE: (hotdogs/sodium nitrite)

    Nitrosamine (NSAR): a family of chemicals anticipated to be human carcinogens by the U.S. National Toxicology Program. Animal experiements have shown that chemical exposure increases the risk of cancer.

    Here we go: there are two sets of rats...

    One set is given a high dose of NSAR, which is twice the amount the low dose rats received. Of the low dose rats, 35% died of throat cancer, while 100% of the high dose rats died of throat cancer.

    How much is a low dose? You'd have to eat 270,000 bologna sandwiches a day for thirt years to get a low dose of NSAR. However, it is well documented that NSAR can cause cancer in humans, we just don't know at what level. I don't think anyone wants to volunteer to pound down hotdogs and bologna sandwiches for any length of time, as we all know they're made with discarded body parts.

    What's my point? The study done on Casein and animal protein is based upon how much humans actually consume, and where the calories come from we ingest. This isn't some far fetched hotdog study that requires a rediculous consumpton patterns that would kill you anyway.
     
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  13. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
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    Sounds like a good book - thanks for posting and the follow up information. It reminded me of some of the work Dr. Ornish did, and I believe he was the first to prove heart disease could be reversed mainly through dietary changes.
     
  14. acarey617

    acarey617 Karting

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    Red meats are undoubtedly unhealthy, and I believe cooked white meats also have certain toxins/carcinogens.

    But I don't know about casein? All I've heard is speculation concerning gluten and casein being linked to autism? I don't see any studies showing it has toxic effects.
     
  15. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    If you do insist on eating meat, try to find organic, pasture-fed meat. Otherwise, you are ingesting mostly fecal matter and hormones and antibiotics, not meat.

    Another dirty secret the meat industry does not want you to know about. Read up on CAFOs.

    The vast majority meat in America is toxic and very, very bad for you.
     
  16. acarey617

    acarey617 Karting

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    I try....I really avoid red meat but when I do eat it it's free range grass-fed (even that can be shady, these animals can still be very unhealthy).

    As for chicken/fish, it's all either wild or free-range & organic.

    Ultimately I have no doubt that a vegetarian or vegan diet greatly reduces one's exposures to a lot of toxins, but I'm still trying to put on muscle mass and I can't deal with getting all my calories from non-animal sources. Plus I love meat too much as of right now. Maybe one day haha
     
  17. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    Indeed, free range merely means that there is a small opening at one end of the warehouse that allows sunlight in, and is large enough for an animal to fit through. The fact is that animals reared in these conditions don't go outside. Their will and energy and awareness is sapped and poisoned out of them. These unhealthy, poisoned, contaminated animals are packaged and you pay a premium for eating the "free range" meat.

    What the food industry in America gets away with is criminal.

    Anyone here been to a CAFO? I have. It's beyond sickening.

    Also, anyone on here read Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan?
     
  18. JSBMD

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    For those of you who haven't read the book, it is written by one of the most prominent nutrition researchers in the country. He is now basically a vegan as a result of the Large study carried out by the NIH in the 70's to examine why the incidences of cancer seemed to vary by region in China. The study was commissioned by the emperor who had been diagnosed with cancer himself, and was of course looking for any explanations as to cause, in order to figure out a cure. So, the author and his team set out with the grace of the Chinese government to sweep across as much of China as possible (down to the smallest villages) and study disease incidences as well as lifestyle.

    As the study progressed, it became patently obvious that in the rural villages, full of "undernourished" peasants, disease rates for both cancers (basically all types) and vascular-type diseases (heart disease and strokes) were much smaller than the rates of these diseases in the more affluent urban settings. The difference? Meat consumption.

    The business of casein was simply the lab experiment the team carried out once back home in the USA. Here, rats were fed varying amounts of protein (they were given casein, milk protein, because it was cheap and easy). Only cancer rates were studied in the rats. What they found was that there was a dose-response curve showing the greater the protein intake, the greater the rates of cancer. (BTW, the rats were predisposed to cancer by being given a carcinogen first.) Turned out that they could demonstrate at will the cancer-protein relationship they observed in China. Above about 10% calories from protein, the cancer rates start climbing fast. Important to note here is that ANIMAL protein vs PLANT protein was not differentiated. The author implies that animal protein is bad for us and that plant protein is good for us, but the studies really only looked at TOTAL protein intake. Just that those animals and people who don't eat animal protein tend to eat a much lower percentage of their total calories as protein.

    The connection between protein intake and vascular diseases was not studied as extensively as that for cancer. However, various smaller studies are cited in the book supporting the same conclusion.

    We westerners get about 20-30% of our calories from protein. This is due to our meat- and animal protein-based diets. Vegetarians and vegans, on the other hand, take in 5-15% of their total calories from protein, which should not surprise anyone reading a forum like this. As I said in the opener, as a result of the China Study, the study's author converted to veganism, so he at least puts his money where his mouth is.

    As you can probably tell, I am a physician. I also am very health-conscious both in terms of diet and exercise. So, when I read the China Study, to me the question was whether or not to change anything I was doing. After all, my body fat was below 10%, my cholesterol was in the 140 range, and I very rarely drink alcohol, and don't smoke. So, for me, from the outset, I was very skeptical as to whether this book would change anything I was currently doing.

    While I can't say I have become a vegan, which is basically what is endorsed by the book's author, I can say that I'm pretty much now a vegetarian (not quite a vegan) for breakfast and lunch. I still eat meat, including lean red meat, at dinner, just not until then. You see, as was shown over and over in the book, there is a dose-response curve correlating protein and disease. So yes, drastically cutting down on protein intake will drastically cut disease, but it has to be something livable.

    I think this is what some of you are getting at. Not easy to cut out meat altogether, at least not for me. But, if I can REDUCE my amount of meat intake, I can likewise REDUCE my incidence of disease.

    Hope this helps some of you who may not quite get the whole China Study thing.

    John
     
  19. Zack

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    Slight flaw in your reasoning...you won't reduce your incidence of disease. You will reduce your likelihood of incidence. Big difference between the two.

    I do agree with you...I eat a mostly vegetarian diet. For the reasons you cite, as well as because of how truly gross the meat is that supermarkets sell to us. If people really knew, I think the meat industry executives would get lynched!
     
  20. J. Salmon

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  21. acarey617

    acarey617 Karting

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    I eat 150-200g/protein every day.

    Hard to put on muscle without it.

    Oh well.
     
  22. bigdavyc

    bigdavyc Karting

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    I saw the movie Food Inc. and stayed away from ground beef for a few weeks...then I got over it.
     
  23. Zack

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    I don't understand why people think it's hard to put on muscle without ingesting large quantities of meat. A lot of world class gymnasts are vegetarians. You don't get any stronger and than gymnasts.

    You guys really that comfortable with eating animal tissue infused with feces, hormones and antibiotics? OK, then, enjoy!
     
  24. JSBMD

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    Zach, point taken about likelihood vs incidence.

    Point of the study is to show that we humans are able to do quite well with a lower protein intake than we are accustomed to. For those of you without a background in biology, proteins in our body are made up of individual amino acids, sort of like a chain made up of individual links. While there are 20-odd different amino acids, only 8 or 9 of these are what are known as "essential" amino acids. What that means is that these special amino acids we humans are incapable of synthesizing in our bodies from raw ingredients. These must be consumed in our diet. The rest of the amino acids we can manufacture ourselves.

    So the study and subsequent book are really trying to point out that we do quite well without an excess of protein in our diet, so long as we get a reasonable amount of the essential amino acids. Turns out we can get these from many sources, not just meat. It's just that the entire spectrum of amino acids appear in meat and animal protein. On the other hand, though, many legumes like lentils and seeds like quinoa contain many of these essential aa. Quinoa in fact contains all the essential aa.

    Anyway, like I said originally, plenty of evidence to convince me that I should cut animal protein from my diet. Just that I still enjoy my steaks, fish, eggs, and dairy, etc. Can't cut it out altogether, 'cuz then life's not as rewarding. Balance, and all that. To me, though, I was able to fairly painlessly reduce my intake of animal protein, which reduces my total protein intake. Recall that the study, though it tries to tout veganism, really only can demonstrate a benefit from reduced total protein intake, not ANIMAL protein intake. Since we're all over-proteined anyway, I don't think I'm compromising myself in any way.

    Definitely flies in the face of the protein powder suppplement way of thinking. Ultimately, on an individual basis though, everything is anecdotal. This is why I don't try to force this on anyone, just do for myself what I think is best.

    Finally, would also recommend the book "In Defense of Food" to anyone interested in diet.

    John
     
  25. Zack

    Zack Formula 3

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    Yes that's a good book as well.
     
  26. bigdavyc

    bigdavyc Karting

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    mmm feces my favorite.

    Seriously there is some interesting information on here. But demonizing meat and/or consumers of meat is counterproductive.
     
  27. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
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    It's rare that I eat ground meat. It doesn't get much less processed than grilling a fresh fillet of grass fed beef. Feces? I am full of them, so are you. Hormones? Got them too. Antibiotics? Ask an animal vet how they feel about "organic" stuff. They go to see a sick cow and can't do anything for it but watch it crap bacteria onto the ground where the other cows are eating.

    Tell me where the big food scares have been lately? Spinach and banana peppers.
     
  28. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

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    #25 nthfinity, Jun 16, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2010
    This is one of the things that really annoys me about the "organic" culture out there. If only organic foods were more common sense, and less insanity (which it is). It isn't as if I like all the crazies that are in common meat, but IMO it isn't worth switching from crazy to insanity...

    as to "over protein" It's quite well documented that you cannot build muscle without sufficient protein intake... while my best weight loss occured w/out it, my greatest muscle development while losing weight was with Whey. Generally about 60 g of my protein per day; once in the morning with my oatmeal, and once after a workout in a shake.
     

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