Anyone changed a cam belt on a 612? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Anyone changed a cam belt on a 612?

Discussion in '612/599' started by brogenville, Dec 21, 2017.

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  1. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    I looked at the 575M repair manual. They actually have the procedure for replacement of the only the outer bearing with the tool that I previously mentioned. I guess that this bearing probably has the most load on it from the cam belt.
    For removal of the front cover, Ferrari says to first remove the motor from the car, then remove the oil pump drive access cover and remove the drive sprocket from the pump. Then they want you to remove the ring nuts from the drive shafts, leaving the sprockets on. Then a special tool is threaded onto the ends of both of the threaded drive shafts and the whole front cover with both drive shafts and oil pump sprocket/chain is removed from the engine block using a slide hammer that threads into the special tool bar that is attached to the ends of the drive shafts.
    All in all, not an easy repair. They also mention that the gear lash between the drive shaft gears and crank gear must be checked at multiple crank locations and adjusted by tapping the cover position before tightening it down. Also not an easy process, which cannot be performed with the cylinder heads on unless you want to bang the pistons into the valves while rotating the crank around to check the gear backlash.
    It makes me want to just remove the outer shaft bearing, feel what the inner bearing play is like and then install a new outer bearing if the play is minimal.
    Otherwise you are looking at a bunch of work.
     
  2. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3

  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,075
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    Cover should be the same as the 550 and 575M and owners have removed those covers and posted in the 456/550/575 forum. Hill Engineering has even had
    new front cover bearings
    made after the originals went NLA. Definitely a different layout for how the engine is fitted, though. Sounds like there is less room in the 612 for a lot or work, including on the F1 system.
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,075
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    John posted as I was writing.
     
  5. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    If you pull the front cover with the cam drive shafts in place, it looks like the oil pump drive sprocket on the nose of the crank will not clear them. That is why Ferrari has you remove the driven sprocket from the oil pump, so the chain and oil pump drive sprocket will come off with the cover.
     
  6. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 24, 2012
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    UK
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    Robin
    Thanks gents. Not had a go yet, but your words are both encouraging and daunting. Ferrari want you to take the engine out eh? **** that! I’ll definitely be having a go with the engine in.

    I’d picked up from another post that the cam drive sprockets don’t clear the other drive gear, so you need to take the drive sprocket off the oil scavenge pump and the whole lot should slide off together. Well, that’s the theory anyway!

    Checking the lash on the cam drive gears sounds... ermm... interesting. One thing I’m not planning on doing is taking the pissing heads off. I think a visual inspection will be the order of the day.
     
  7. TrojanFan

    TrojanFan F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2008
    4,902
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    Peter
    In the "While you are there" category, what are the thoughts on the need to change the Connection Sleeve (The hose between the water pump and manifold) and the Belt tightening pulley for the Alternator/AC when doing a timing belt change? My car hasn't been opened up yet but its pushing 42K miles. I don't want to throw away needless money so are these high failure/wear parts?
     
  8. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3

    Just to clarify - my heads were off in the above pics because I had around 20-25% leakdown in several cylinders. Unfortunately after the heads came off, and I repeated the leakdown on the block, I still had essentially the same figures, so the block came out. Then I found several pistons with frozen rings - two freed up with very strong solvents, but the third one was well and properly frozen/rusted and would not free up.
     
  9. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    Apr 24, 2012
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    Robin
    To close the loop on this job, I did eventually get round to getting the belts off again and the timing pullet bearings changed. I managed to get a deal on some Hill bearings too, so hopefully that's it for good. Anyway, it took me so long whilst I got the ring gear nut, and then had to wait for suitable pullers to arrive to get the bearings out of the block- its seriously tight in there on a 612, but it was all possible with the engine in. As per John's post above, the gears came off with the cover once the oil scavenge pump sprocket was detached. The bearings in the block weren't that bad, but having put it all back together once before, I wasn't going to go for a half measure. As it happens, the main bearings were comparatively easy to remove once the cover plate was off, as they have circlips holding them in on both sides, so you can just tap them out with a drift.

    Hopefully that's my car fettling for a while. Thanks to all those above, especially Brian, for all your help.


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  10. TrojanFan

    TrojanFan F1 Rookie
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    Does anyone replace the cam bearings as a part of the 5 year service? I always understood the service to be the timing belts and the tension bearings. This is getting way more involved. So the clue to the bearing failing was the noise that you were getting before and after replacing the timing belts and tension bearings? Any other tell tale signs? Any noticeable wear in the bearings? Leaking around the bearings, etc?
     
  11. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    All of the bearings could possibly show some seeping/throwing of grease regardless of source. On the lower timing bearings, the telltale sign would be a single laser engraving of "170787" (reproduction Ferrari -- which, in an ideal world, should be replaced) on the shell, instead of the full SKF part number (originals), or the NTN numbers (Hill Engineering spec). If you have the SKF or Hill variant, base your decision on appearance, feel, miles, etc.
     
  12. brogenville

    brogenville Formula 3
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    Apr 24, 2012
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    Robin
    First sign there was an issue was a weird noise coming from the timing belt area. When I took the timing covers off, I found the belt on one side really very slack. I assumed this was the cause of the noise, but in reality the belt was slack due to the bearing wear, which itself was causing the wear. Running the engine with the cover off was the confirmation that the bearing was duff. I have a video of it where you can clearly see the pulley moving about as it turns.
     

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