Anyone good with math/physics... | FerrariChat

Anyone good with math/physics...

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by darkalley, Mar 5, 2007.

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  1. darkalley

    darkalley Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2004
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    Jim
    OK, this is a serious question.... My question relates to a cellular tower/Monopole. If a 2 ft x 3 ft piece of ice that is 3 inches thick falls from a height of 120 feet in 50 mph wind.... how far will it travel???
     
  2. ^@#&

    ^@#& F1 World Champ
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    120 feet to the ground. :D
     
  3. Kieran

    Kieran F1 Rookie

    Jul 23, 2006
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    It can really vary...I'll try it on the school's physics programme tomorrow.
     
  4. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2006
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    Which way is the piece of ice falling, less cross section will cause less force acted on the ice by the wind. Unless you're treating the block of ice as a particle then the size and orientation of the ice wouldn't matter.
     
  5. fcman

    fcman Formula Junior

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    Werd
     
  6. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie

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    Right, and in what direction (vector) is the wind blowing, and does the ice piece have any initial horizontal velocity component, etc. etc.
     
  7. fcman

    fcman Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2006
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    I'm assuming the piece is merely dropped, so the x-component is 0 initially, this would also mean the y-component is also 0 (a = -9.8m/s^2, don't have the ft/sec^2 here) due to the droppage (lol, droppage)

    Next we should assume (given no further details) that the wind is simply an x-component vector with a value of 50mph (we can ignore direction here)

    and I dont know why I'm doing this, I have a Calc 3 exam to study for.
     
  8. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

    Aug 9, 2006
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    It depends on how much of the ice's surface is making contact with the wind. The greater the area exposed to the wind, the more affect the wind will have on the ice, blowing it further from it's destination and adding to the travel distance.

    Can't properly answer the question...
     
  9. fcman

    fcman Formula Junior

    Aug 10, 2006
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    Well, yes and no. It really depends on what level physics he's in. For all we know the answer could be simply 50mph x time (in hours) it takes to fall, it would be ridiculous but you never know. Of course, I'm speculating that this is for a class assignment and the OP is not actually attempting to do this. :D
     
  10. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thats a good question to ask the city of Toronto. They shut down the highway all day because of falling ice from the CN Tower.
     
  11. Asian1118

    Asian1118 F1 Rookie

    Mar 23, 2005
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    Thats my answer
     
  12. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

    Aug 9, 2006
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    Sure, or you could consider it's 120' if the Ice is relatively unaffected by the wind, which means it has to fall with the small 3" side facing the wind, but this isn't likely since if a piece of ice fell the upwinds from the fall would turn it sideways, hence it would be affected by the 50MPH cross winds. How far will a piece of ice travel off course in 50MPH winds? Well you'd have to figure out the weight of the ice first, then the drag coefficient, bla bla...

    My answer is "Who cares?"
     
  13. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
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    Wouldn't this be kind of like standing next to a fan, holding a playing card out at arm's length, and dropping the card 10 times? It would never follow the same trajectory twice, and you wouldn't be able to mathematically predict where it would land anyway. It's way too variable.
     
  14. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2006
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    Not if you disregard certain varaibles that physics questions usually state before hand. Which leads us back to our initial answers that we need more info to answer the question.
     
  15. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The answer would be a range between falling 120 ft to whatever the maximum effect of a 50 mph wind would be if the sheet were facing in the direction with maximal impact.

    The ice was a 0 mph when it started. The maximum it could have been travelling at impact would be 50 mph. We don't now that it could make it to that velocity in that short a distance, but we'll assume that it did. And we don't know how long it would take to reach 50 mph, but assuming that the progression was linerar the average speed is 25 mph.

    An object travelling at 25 mph goes 36.666! feet per second. So if you can tell me the time it takes an object to fall 120 ft, we can come up with a range of distance that if probably fell.

    We need to know what the terminal velocity is but we don't have enough information per the following quote:

    When an object falls a long distance through air, it eventually reaches a maximum downward velocity known as its terminal velocity. At terminal velocity, the upward force of wind resistance exactly balances the object's downward weight and it coasts downward at a steady speed. Although gravity hasn't disappeared, the object doesn't accelerate downward anymore.

    Different objects have different terminal velocities. A fluffy object that catches the wind strongly but has little weight descends slowly because forces of wind resistance and weight balance one another at a low speed. A dense, compact object descends quickly because it must moves extremely fast through the air before wind resistance balances its weight.
    So to answer your question, an object's terminal velocity depends directly on wind resistance and weight. However, an object's weight depends on the strength of gravity and on the object's mass-the more mass the object has or the stronger the gravity acting on it, the more the object weighs. Therefore, an object's terminal velocity depends on all four concepts: wind resistance, weight, gravity, and mass.


    It's a calculous problem:

    Velocity of a falling object

    Example Ever since you started your calculus class you've suffered from blinding headaches. Nothing helps. Acupuncture, drugs, counseling, you've tried them all, but the headaches get worse and worse. The pain is unbearable, and you decide to end it all. Your drive to the middle of the Golden Gate Bridge and climb over the safety rail, 400 feet above the water. With that pain, life is not worth living, so you fling your calculus text (which you carry everywhere) over the edge, and jump out after it. Your height in feet over the water after t seconds is given by the function h(t) = 400 - 16t2.

    a. How long till you hit the water?

    5 seconds.

    Substituting in the formula we get:
    t^2=120/16
    t^2=7.5 sec
    t=SQRT 7.5 sec = 2.73816 sec

    2.73816 sec times 36.6 feet per sec = 100.4158 ft.

    Therefore, I estimate that the total distance travelled is in a range between 120.1 feet and (120.0 + 100.4158 ft) or 220.4158 feet.

    Discuss[b/]
     
  16. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
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    Well I'm glad I'm done with school..
     
  17. BT

    BT F1 World Champ
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    It depends on the shape of the ice. if it is rectangular 2x3 feet then determine the thickness based on the weight. Further, the resultant friction with the air (until it reaches the same speed as the wind) will cause some melting and shape deformation, much like when snow turns to rain, although this effect will be minimal during a quick 120 foot fall. Also, the whole cellular technology does not work very well and the people in that industry (cell tower construction) are the most impatient people I have ever worked with. I would say take the tower down, you never know who might get hurt from falling ice.
    :D
    BT
     
  18. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

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    I guess it wasn't that important of a question seeing as how he hasn't responded yet even with all our creative answers.
     
  19. iceburns288

    iceburns288 Formula 3

    Jun 19, 2004
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    Charles M.

    This doesn't really make all that much sense, nor does it have anything to do with integrals. But I give you credit and your answer is good enough ;).
     
  20. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    My brain is bleeding
     
  21. darkalley

    darkalley Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2004
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    OK, just got back online. Isn't there a simple formula?? Here is what I need.... Can said piece of ice fall from 120 ft travel 100 feet in 50mph wind gusts?? My head hurts as well.
     
  22. 1_can_dream

    1_can_dream F1 Veteran

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    Travel 100 feet in which direction? It has to travel at least 120 feet unless you some kind of antigravity machine.
     
  23. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    Easy


    120 ft







    (margin of error 30%)
     
  24. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

    Aug 9, 2006
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    Phoenix, Arizona


    No, in all seriousness, there is no simple formula with the given parameters. Even with more detailed information, there still is no simple formula. Way too many input parameters.

    Can it travel 100' to the side on it's way down? I'd say it's possible for sure.
     
  25. darkalley

    darkalley Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2004
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    Jim
    here is why i ask.... they are trying to build a cell tower near my house.... one of the things i am saying is falling ice from the tower can hit the road during heavy winds.
     

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