Anyone Here Actually Own a 348 GTB/GTS | FerrariChat

Anyone Here Actually Own a 348 GTB/GTS

Discussion in '348/355' started by wazie7262, Apr 12, 2013.

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  1. wazie7262

    wazie7262 Formula 3

    Feb 13, 2008
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    Hi all :)

    Just curious...does anyone here (in the U.S.) actually own a 348 GTB/S? Not a TB or TS, but a GTB/S? I know they are rare due to very limited production, but from what I understand, they were much improved cars over the early TBs and TSs.

    I know there are a couple of European owners on here, but, again, anyone in the U.S.?
     
  2. Extreme

    Extreme F1 Rookie

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    I guess I thought they were all GTS/GTB or spiders... What's the difference between these and the TS TB?
     
  3. wazie7262

    wazie7262 Formula 3

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    I believe the GTBs and GTSs were like the spiders --- wider rear offset/track, better exhaust management and iginition, and a better gearbox; i.e. most of the early car "growing pains" were sorted. ;-)
     
  4. peterdavid911

    peterdavid911 Formula 3

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    Also they have an extra 20bhp totalling 320bhp, 0-60 went from 5.6 to 5.4 and a slightly higher top speed. From what I have read they were a huge improvement over the ts and tb models and were soon replaced by the 355.

    It would be great if anyone has a list of all factory improvements by chassis number references.
     
  5. Reddesire

    Reddesire Formula Junior

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    GTB/GTS first released at the Frankfurt Motor Show Oct 1993 continued in production for both European and US markets until release of F355 in March 1994.

    Total numbers built 93-93 = 222 GTB's and 218 GTS's

    Body wise all the black was removed from the baselines and black rear engine panel which was instead color coded to the cars body with chrome Cavallino's added to the front and replacing the rear black one along with new GTS/GTB badging.

    Came out with upgraded Bosch M2.7 fuel injection system (as did late model ts and tb's)giving the extra 20 bhp.

    Both Euro and US models had different overall gear ratios compared to the original ts and tb and in turn the Euro GTS/GTB had a different gear ratio set up compared to the US models.

    Many dealerships upgraded late model ts and tb to look like GTS and GTB's so the only way of confirming an original GTS/GTB is by chassis number.

    That about it !!! :)
     
  6. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    Same as The Serie Speciale mods.
     
  7. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #7 ernie, Apr 13, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
    The main difference with the gtb/gts 348s is the engine. The standard 348 engine has a compression ratio of 10.4:1, while the gtb/gts have a compression ratio of 10.8:1. In addition they also have a taller intake plenum. The engine block number is F119H. I also think the 348 Competizione has the same block.

    I forget the name of the shop that used to be in West Los Angeles, I think the guy's name who ran it was Costa (?), anyway, many years ago they had a gray market gtb/s at their shop. It was yellow if my memory serves me correct.
     
  8. Dazzling

    Dazzling Formula 3

    Nov 18, 2010
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    Thats right Ernie :D

    Some more info gleaned from a UK website (hence the very small numbers mentioned), some of which is already noted above;-

    Introduced in October 1993 at the Frankfurt Salon. The GTS and GTB took the 348 to new levels. Visually the sills, front spoiler and rear valance were finished in body colour and the chrome prancing horse fitted to the front and rear grilles. Mechanically BHP was increased to 320 bhp, this was partially due to improved breathing due to the exhaust system being revised.

    During the course of production the battery had been relocated from the rear to the front of the car, the suspension pick up joints had also been revised all resulting in much-improved ride and handling to the earlier cars. The rear bulkhead had also been modified giving more legroom for occupants when the roof panel was stored in the car. To summarise the 348 GTS/GTB was the 355 “mule”. With the 355 announced in March 1994 only fifteen GTS and fourteen GTB made it to the United Kingdom before production stopped. To quote from Tony Willis – General Manager of Maranello Sales, writing in Auto Italia about 348’s, “the car had a better feel and balance and being quite rare in numbers they are snatched up quickly”.
     
  9. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
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    The 348 GTS/GTB (and for that matter GTC) were never offered as a US model. We had the spider, SS and Challenge offered on this side of the pond for those years. Any 348 GTS/GTB in the US are gray market cars.
     
  10. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    #10 Nosevi, Apr 13, 2013
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    The enhansements to the 348 were pretty much a sliding scale with a biggish jump in late '91 early '92 (just after LdM came in) and another with the introduction of the GTB/GTS/Spider. In late '91 early '92 there were improvements to the suspension and alignment as well as the battery shifting up front for weight distribution. The suspension was updated again with the GTB/GTS/Spider but from what I've heard the earlier suspension and handling tweaks made the biggest difference to that area.

    With many of the improvements it was a bit of a sliding scale as well and as an improvement came in it depended on where your car was on the production line as to whether it got it or not. My car, a late model TS, has the same seats as a GTS and the aerial is in the front screen but I've seen some Spiders with the less tall Plenums (example below but it's by no means the only one) so I guess they missed out.

    A quick rough and ready list of some of the updates but not all (stollen from my348.com):

    1. 05/30/91 differential side seal—production improvement
    2. 05/30/91 Bosch starter motor changed to Nippon—production improvement
    3. 10/10/91 cam seal housing modification—reduced oil leakage
    4. 10/10/91 double plate-clutch changed in favor of single-plate clutch—production improvement
    5. 10/10/91 new alignment specs—improved handling
    6. 10/10/91 improved mounting of front bonnet grill to address warpage
    7. 10/10/91 front suspension shocks and springs—production improvement
    8. 06/01/92 rear A-arm fix point height reduction—production improvement
    9. 06/01/92 Delco Alternator changed to Nippon—production improvement
    10. 08/18/92 door grills—improved strength
    11. 08/24/92 oil sump tank ground strap—improved gauge operation
    12. 11/03/92 front timing bearing—reduced noise
    13. 08/18/93 harmonic balancer replacement—reduced weight - added 2hp

    14. 08/20/93 clutch thrust bearing/slave—production improvement


    Other factory enhancements:

    the change in final drive ratio

    The 1994 348 Spiders have a 4.34 to 1 final drive ratio.

    The 1993 348 TS's have a final drive ratio of 3.53 to 1 (click here: Maximum-Cars.com - 1993 Ferrari 348 TS Information and High Resolution Images. ).

    The 1992 & 1993 Ferrari 348 tb and ts Serie Speciale had their rear track widened by 50mm from 1578mm to 1628mm by adding 25mm of offset to each wheel, and their final drive was shortened from 26/27 on the earlier cars to 25/29 on the SS. A taller fifth gear was fitted (early cars having p/n 70000592), to maintain top speed with the new lower main gear installed (click here: http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/348versions.html ).

    The 1990 348 TB's have a final drive ratio of 3.56 to 1 (click here: http://www.**************/cars/564.html).

    the stainless steel fuel line change, the major change to the Spider one-can exhaust from the old 2-can muffler, rear subframe upgrade to part number 4628, the change from the Motronic 2.5 to Motronic 2.7 ECUs (at and above chassis #86406), the increase in redline to 7800 RPMs (Spider, SS, Challenge, Competizione), the battery location switch from the rear bonnet to beneath the front bonnet (1992), larger intake plenums (for GTS, GTB, Competizione), 50mm wider track via 25mm wheel offsets, exhaust cam pulley setting re-indexed (U.S. Challenge 348's and Euro GTB, GTS, and Spiders), and the front bonnet A/C fuse switch from blade to inline bullet.

    1989 model Ferrari 348's did not have the mad mouse seat belts. Early 1989 models had an external radio antenna.

    1992 models and up came with body colored side skirts and spoilers. SS models had a reverse curve front spoiler (and small lip), removed rear grill, kevlar seats, chrome prancing horse "cavallino" emblems front and rear, strengthened door panels, leather interior door panels, and a taller 5th gear.

    Challenge models also came with aluminum pedals, an alternate fuel pump, a lighter front bumper, roll cage mounts, carbon fiber brake cooling ducts, a bigger heat shield, rubberized tow hooks front and rear, exhaust timing advanced, and 18 inch speedline racing wheels (225/40 ZR 18 front and 265/40 ZR 18 rear).

    Competizione models came with carbon fiber bumpers, aluminum and carbon fiber "thin" front bonnet and rear decklid, carbon fiber undertray, F40 half-shafts, upgraded fuel mapping in the ECU chips, lexan rear window, 15 inch brakes, and a strengthened frame.
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  11. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    #11 Nosevi, Apr 13, 2013
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    p.s. These are the size of the taller plenums on a Spider but you'll find many of the early Spiders missed out and so don't actually have the BHP increase over the TS/TB that was 'advertised'.
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  12. Reddesire

    Reddesire Formula Junior

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    #12 Reddesire, Apr 13, 2013
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    ......I used a well known text as a reference, 'Original Ferrari V8 - The Restorers Guide to all models 1974 -94....." It is considered somewhat of a bible for the models it covers.

    It ceratinly states the 'Series Speciale' was for the North American market only and the 'Competizione' was for the European market only and refers to this several times through the text.
    However when it starts to describe the introduction of the GTB/GTS in Oct 93 on page 85 there is no mention of any restrictions on its marketing. Additionally on page 94 it shows a table of the differing 'overall gear ratio's between the EU and the US models of GTB/S which I have attached below. So on this basis I assumed they where infact sold into the US market as well !!
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  13. Dazzling

    Dazzling Formula 3

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    Although a good resource, Bluemel's book can't be compared with My Ferrari 348 which is the best resource for 348 owners that I am aware of :).

    Unfortunately "Original Ferrari V8..." contains quite a few errors and omissions btw the GTB/GTS models were definately not sold in the US. ;)
     
  14. 3forty8

    3forty8 F1 Rookie
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    Your bible contains a false prophet! ;)
     
  15. fdekeu

    fdekeu Formula Junior

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    I have a 348GTB (98305)
    I am European though
    There are more mods to the engine than the intake plenum alone
    Max torque is at 5000rpm compared to 4200 for the TB/TS
    That means the camshafts are different
    The rib design on the intake plenum is a good way to see if you have
    the 119H engine
     
  16. Nosevi

    Nosevi Formula 3

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    Agreed, and many of the Spiders don't. Not sure if the SS had the taller plenums (with the fins not being uniform front to back). Any pictures anyone?
     
  17. Reddesire

    Reddesire Formula Junior

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    ....... I feel betrayed.. How could anyone write untruths about my beloved 348..! There should be a Jihad put out on him like the Alkada does to anyone who blasphemes the profit in our case its Enzo :)

    Know the website well and yes it is the online goldmine for 348 !!
     
  18. Reddesire

    Reddesire Formula Junior

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    #18 Reddesire, Apr 14, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
    OK I give up... !!!

    I have been cruising around the net and looking through all my own references (Road & Track articles etc) for the last couple of hours (even 'my348.com') and cannot find one reference stating that the GTB/S where only available in the European market. Unlike the 'Series Speciale' and the 'Competizione' where their respective markets are constantly referred to !

    For the GTB/S they all simply state it replaced the tb and ts in Oct 93 (then came the spyder) ultimately to be replaced by the 355.
    However you do come across 'bits' of information like my earlier reference by Bluemel (the accused blasphemer) and others including 'ferrari.com' itself...!!!

    http://www.ferrari.com/english/gt_sp...s/348_GTB.aspx

    "Modified from the 348 TB, the 348 GTB was a two-seater Berlinetta with dynamic performance characteristics worthy of the marque's highest traditions. Its sports orientation was best expressed on the track, as proven by the 348 Challenge, which saw this car race on circuits in Europe and the US. Its styling was harmonious and aerodynamically efficient, and the mid-mounted V8 engine ensured perfect weight distribution and class-beating power".

    So to put my enquiring mind o rest can any of you, who have stated clearly no GTB/S's ever went to the US, please site a reference or two that I can read that specifies the GTB/S were a European model only ????
     
  19. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    #19 Saint Bastage, Apr 14, 2013
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  20. Dazzling

    Dazzling Formula 3

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    #20 Dazzling, Apr 14, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
    Word for word?

    My Ferrari 348 - Ferrari 348 GTB/GTS

    Refers to challenge cars not the GTB specifically
     
  21. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    Yep...that's from the magazine.
     
  22. Bookum

    Bookum Karting

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    My 95 Spider has the shorter plenums. Surprised it doesn't have the taller version with it being a 95. Kind of disappointed to know that my car missed out on the upgraded motor bits. :mad:
     
  23. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #23 ernie, Apr 14, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2013
    It is very, very simple. All you have to do is look at the vehicle identification number (V.I.N.) on any GTB/GTS/GTC and it will be evident that they were only made to be sold in Europe. The 4th digit will be the letter U (Euro GTB, GTS, Spider engine), and the 8th digit will either be the letter B (left hand drive Europe) or the letter C (right hand drive England). This thread explains how to read the Ferrari VINs http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/technical-q/318113-how-read-ferrari-vin-vehicle-identification-number.html That is also how you can verify it is a legitimate GTB/GTS/GTC. If the 8th digit is anything BUT those two letters it will NOT be the "Real McCoy".

    Speaking of, what numbers are the 6th & 7th digits in the VIN on your Competizione Darren? I'm wondering how Ferrari decided to denote the Competizione?
     
  24. Dazzling

    Dazzling Formula 3

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    Hi Ernie, its 35, so the answer is they didn't denote it any differently to the GTB in the VIN. This isn't a surprise I guess as it was only 50 cars and they were all based on GTB's.
     
  25. Reddesire

    Reddesire Formula Junior

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    I stand both corrected and educated... thank you all who persevered with my 'stick in the mud' attitude! I can be a bit stubborn that way at times :) :) ;) ;)

    Although clearly never sold into the US perhaps some came over to the US through the 'Ferrari Challenge' racing side of things which would explain the occasional reference to being raced in the US !?
     

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