Anyone in SoCal have a 308 GTS that I can sit in?

I live in Southern Orange County, California and would like to see a 308 GTS before I fly out to possibly buy one.
I am 6'3" 210 lbs and 36" inseam.

I am talking to a seller of a 1985 308 GTS QV in Pittsburg PA. He wants $42k for the car.

13,500 miles
Red w/ Black interior

It has won 6 awards including Concours. It has always been pampered. It has always been garage kept and has never seen rain. He bought it in July of 1999 with 11886 miles and now seven years later has only 13500 miles. Both window lift motors were replaced last month. The plugs, air and fuel filter were replaced in March.The fuel accumulator was just replaced in June. The 7500 mile service was performed by American Service Center in Arlington VA. The timing belts and drive belts were replaced by the last owner in 1999. All the fluids have been replaced. The A/C blows cold. He installed a set of Goodyear ZR rated tires.They are like new. He stored the original tires (which are in very good condition) and they are included. The spare tire has never been on the road. He also installed a Kenwood AM/FM CD player with remote. The factory radio was stored and is included. He also have the factory accessory drive belts. He has all the owners books, tools, tool bag, jacks, Ferrari light, part container, targa roof bag and the original black floor mats. The red horse mats were a Ferrari accessory. These items are all included. The seats are original ( black leather with red piping ) and have not been dyed. Power options include locks, windows, mirrors, antenna.

It has been in storage most of its life and has had minor paint touchup from a couple of stone chips. It is 21 years old. It has never been wrecked. He has also kept such items as the original radiator cap and valve stem caps.

Please let me know what you think. I have always wanted a 308 GTS QV and this one looks like a good one. Also, anyone know of someone out in Pitt. that is good at inspecting Ferraris?

Thanks!

 

If what you say is true, it may not matter if you can fit in it because you absolutely cannot drive it in the condition it is currently in.

ALL the rubber will have to be replaced. I mean ALL OF IT. Have I made that clear enough? ALL OF IT. That includes the belts. Unless you want a show car that will not be driven at all except on and off the trailer at shows, skip this one at this price. You will be in another $5K minimum before you can drive it which makes this at least a $48,000 308 - and that guess is on the low end big time.

I am not saying that this is a "bad" car. What I am saying is that, if you mean what you say about always wanting one, you will want to spend a good deal of time behind the wheel once it is in your driveway. If so, this car is not for you. Shop around a little more, find a good one with about 50,000+ miles on it that has had new belts, etc. within the last year and save about $15,000.

I'm serious.

 

I agree with the good doctor. If you want to drive it, buy a cheaper one. Belts not done since 1999? At a minimum, you have to do those for your piece of mind. Replace all the rubber? Maybe? I'd check the condition before going that far. Why don't you buy one for 35k that has 15k more miles on it but has more recent service, and you won't cringe when you drive it if you put a scratch on it.

 

Really, with all that originality, those hoses need to go. I know only because I have walked the walk on this one. Not just me either, do a search and see how many other FChatters sailed this same boat too.

It's not worth it to assume they are fine by squeezing and looking. Here is a tip too: don't forget the little one below the intake manifold either. Yes, the manifold has to come off but do you want to guess what will happen if you don't replace it with the rest just because it is hard to get to? Ask me how I am so sure. Ask some of my friends who have 308's too.

Remember, those things have been on since Reagan was just a year into his second term. Rubber will degrade with time. I am guessing that 21 years should be about enough time. Besides, that is the very reason the cam belts need to come off - time. If 7 years is hard on them, you can better believe 21 years is enough to do magic on the rest.

Remember I am speaking from pure experience, both with my car and from 25 years of hanging around other 308/owners and listening to their stories. Listen to me, not the guy selling you something (unless of course he happens to agree with me)

 

Kind of odd (or is it absurd?) that a car with 11,000 miles on it had to get both window lift motors were replaced!!!

 

YIKES!!!

I liked this one because I wanted an all original (or at least had the parts to put back on) and in very nice condition, but $5K??? I have never owned a Ferrari, only and M3 and Z06, so I am new to it.

What is the most you would pay for a 1985 308 GTS QV? What is the average $$$?

Also would you avoid the Euros? I like the looks of the front better, but I have heard to avoid them.

Thank you!

 

A belt change will run about $3K-4K depending and there is a lot of discussion on this board about what to pay. The rubber is shot from sitting and with time.
Expect to pay around 35K for a good 85 308 plus or minus 1000 to 2000. I would not pay more than 36,000 only because you do not have to.

Euros are fine - in fact better - because they are a bit quicker. Just make sure the DOT papers are in order. If so and the price and history are right, go for it. The only reason to "avoid" one is the DOT release thing. Mechanically it is not different enough to make a difference when it is in the shop.

 

Actually I should be a little clearer about the $3-4K cam belt change. That price is for a major service which includes valve adjustments, etc, etc. To simply swap cam belts it will be less but you will want all the things that go with the major so expect to spend 3-4k while it is in the shop getting new cam belts.

 

Odd that the motors would both go, but probably the grease in the mechanisms turned to hardened crud over the years, so I'm sure the windows slowed and died. Whether that killed the motors, or someone just decided to replace everything in the door, who knows.

$5K goes kinda fast in the Ferrari world. I can tell you I spent $4K on a 30K major with water pump rebuild at a reputable non-Ferrari dealer in January, for a regularly-driven 328 with zero issues.

Those original tires from 1985 are ready to be made into playground swings -- for very lightweight children. Seriously, some things get better with age. Tires aren't one of them.

If you're in San Diego, you can sit in my 328. Similar ergonomics, etc.

 

Oh, as far as the sitting thing, I have a GTB you are welcome to try out, but it requires a bit of limbo because it has a roll cage to sqeeze in through.

...Or go to Coffee Roasters in Calabasas on Sunday and they'll probably be a few 308's there (plus a shiiload of other cool cars) (...assuming people will drive out there in the current 110 degree heat.)

 

gonna be a tight fit big guy. i'm 6'1 230. once i put my 85 gtb on, notice i didn't say get in, i've got enough room overhead to lay my hand on top of my head and my left knee clears the headlite switch by a couple inches. as for leg room it's actually not too bad. i'll guess you don't have balerinna's feet so the toe box is tight. figure on a nice pair of driving shoes. tennis shoes and boots are a no-no. don't worry, you'll figure it out.

 

To me 7 years on timing belts that have been spent their life mostly sitting around is a ticking time bomb, the first thing you would want to do is have the belts replaced BEFORE having it driven on to the transport truck, if they break durring the loading of the vehicle you'll be kicking yourself in the head for years and shelling out big $$$$ to fix the pistons / valves.

I had to do this with my long distance purchace, cheep insurance with old belts from the PO

once you have the car at your location replace the rest of the old rubber parts, which may include the tires on the car right now, my Porsche manual recommends tires replaced every 5 years regardless of mileage.

my .02

 

Don't worry about this car right now. There are plenty of great drivers out there with less issues for less money. You'll find a good one that you will enjoy.

Just keep in mind that in our little Ferrari world, there are really only three basic types; concours, drivers, and basket cases.

This is a concours 308 as you describe it. Is it worth $42K? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on your intentions. Either way I would haggle on the cost of new cam belts into the price but otherwise it is not a driver as is. No way no how period, case closed and do not let anyone tell you otherwise. If you try to chance it, just make sure you have a cell phone with you with tow truck numbers in it and hope to hell it is a coolant hose that will go and not a cam belt which can instantly create for you a $60,000 308 - just like when it was new in 1985. You WILL be paying more if you try to start putting the miles on it whether you like it or not. Therefore, is this car worth $50,000 to you? I am suggesting that $50,000 is a lot for a 308 that you want to use. $50,000 may be worth it to you if you have the money and want to sweep the concours circuit. It is up to you. We are just here to help you make the right decision based on your intentions.

Keep us posted.

 

Thanks for your input, everyone! PenP, I might have to take you up and stop by to see your GTB.

I sent an email about the belts and rubber to the seller, he has not responded yet.

 

Great post, will prove to be one of the classics!

Greg
77 308 GTB

 

The one common element I see in all these posts is the cost of a cam-belt change. $3000! ? Do none of you do your own maintenance? We're talking under $50 for the belts. If you need valves shimmed, that's another story - but you can do it in the garage at home. Then again, there's the cost in 'time'...

rick / '79 308GTB with Webers, as God intended.

 

I really do agree with you here but the cam belts are just a tad out of my expertise (as in I have never done a set before). If I get it wrong...

 

I called up the owner and this is what he said:

He is a Ford Mechanic.
His friend drives a Ferrari 328.
He is the 3rd owner. He bought it from a very sheltered lady who was upset that it only obtained 2nd place at a 1995 concours judging. She would not let him sit in it without putting on sweatpants. He could not drive it when he went to go see it as it was raining. She covered the stick shift, and pedals with socks. It was in a temperature, humidity controlled garage.
It is garaged now and not driven in the rain. The garage is a non-temperature controlled one.
He has done all of the maintenance since he bought it, himself.
He has not replaced the belts because he hardly drives it and does not think that he needs it for how he drives it. "If I thought it needed belts, I would have replaced them. It would only cost me $300 since I would do it myself. I know that if they go bad you will have a lot of engine damage."
I asked him what I should replace if I drove it 1,000 miles a year. He responded "The belts"
He drove it about 56 miles last year.
Everything works on the car...including the air...cold.

Nearest place for a PPI
Exoticars Pittsburgh (Dealer)
Phone: 412-343-1111

2633 West Liberty Ave
Pittsburgh PA 15216

He said that people have offered him $40k in cash but he has turned it down. He said that He started asking $45 in April and is asking $42 now. He is selling it because he is buying a new house. When he bought it, he thought that he would never sell it. He also pointed out the Magnum P.I. movie coming out is going to help its value.

 

Wow this could be your retirement fund...

It sounds like the car was babied, which means it probably has never been hit, scraped, etc. I would be very interested in that car, but as Dr. Tommy said a simple belt swap isn't going to be enough, unless other fuel, coolant and brake lines were replaced at some point (and you have reliable documents showing this).

If you have the mechanical skills to replace all of these bits that deteriorate over 21 years, this could be a great car for you. It think it's easily worth $40K if a PPI shows good compression and body is all straight and original.

I don't for a moment believe the seller's comment that all it needs is to have the belts replaced, however, so plan to be into the car for the mid- to high-$40K range pretty quickly and buy it because you want it.

Make sure you like the black seats with red piping. It's all about what you like, but it's slightly less sought after than red/tan. Also, FWIW, the power "options" you mentioned initially were actually standard on '85s. Also, don't set your expectations too high when it comes to "cold" 308 air conditioning. The air in my 328 is an improved system, and works well in cooler weather when you're parked in the shade.

 

Sure it will. Just like the new Miami Vice movie helped the price of TR's and Daytona's shoot thru the roof.

 

I guess that's the trick; just drive in 55 mile intervals and the belts will never break...

The belts HAVE TO BE CHANGED!!!!!!!!! Either you will pay for it or he does. If you do you just bought yourself a $45,000+ (big + too) 308.

I would probably walk on this one. The guy has NO idea what he is talking about. None. I don't care how many Fords he has fixed before. Do NOT fall for his faulty logic.

 

Dr. Tommy's got it right. Walk away from this one unless you're buying a show car. He won't get $42k from a knowledgable Ferrari buyer, it might be worth the $40k he was offered, but I doubt it. Or, tell him you'll buy it if he does the belts for $300.

 

I do understand the want for a 308, I have had the problem for nearly 20 years, and finially bought one.

With a little research, I might have done better. The primairy concurn on my purchase was the mechanics and condition...color too.
1. Was it Ferrari Red with Tan interior? I had to have that!
2. Was it all there? Seemed to be when I saw the add, see below
3. Has it been annually maintained? So they said, remember its a seller!
4. Does it have 'Maintenance Records'? Mine didn't, but I love a challenge.
5. Is the price fair for condition and use? From what I saw...good deal

I paid $37,000 for a 50,250 mile 1985 308GTS a few months ago. Seems to be a good price, and even though "they say" the belts were changed not long ago, I am currently collecting all the hoses belts and other wear parts and information on how to change them right now.

As for the car, the dealer, seems to have lost the owners manual, about $550, and the spare too, about $600. Suposidly left in the wash rack.

The most important thing is, I have a solid Ferrari, at a price I can still afford to add a few items and still have a car worth the investment.

And if you dont have a complete history, have a CarFax done. Remember Carfax is a new company compared to your 21 or more year old car, it will only tell you about the past 10 years or so.
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Congrats Douglas, very good choice one of the best year in 308 series. The price is fair and like you said you have a solid car and it will stay solid for many years to come. Enjoy as I do on my 84 GTS QV.

Mike