fyi, a well known Montreal dealer that i've worked with in the past just called me to bring this car to my attention...at a glance it looks like a nice package. 1980 BB 512 , French delivered http://www.johnscotti.com/en/used/1980-ferrari-bb-512/3919665/ i'm in Montreal for the GP next weekend so i could possibly schedule a viewing if anyone were interested. brett
Wow, where've I been? Hadn't ever come across that site, mighty impressive. Boxer looks like its just had a hefty service, ready for the road. Nice inventory all around.
I think it's the car from Paris that was tested for a very nice one-off brochure. (all red, black grills...) and that was sold to Florida.
interesting...i don't have an explanation for that. all things being equal, a very, very reasonable $119K. the work mentioned was performed by Garage Salvatore...i've heard they're a good shop but don't know their work personally.
U R 100% right. But already was like that before leaving France. Even spinners were not road lgal. Pls see pic of that car when in France @ 10 years ago. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Simple : French BB Owners found nicer the amber front signal lights thant the old fashioned white in the 365 style. Above all in red. Besides, France was the only country where BB512 were sold w/ these white lights. The reason why @ 75% of the French BB lost their white lights. Mine's till got its.
35 will not cover a proper rebuild with carbs properly done. It is a buy, just put aside another 20 to 30k for extras
I paid 2,600 19.6 % VAT included to make my carbs cleaned, upgraded, and tuned like new w/ new gaskets, seals, "pointeau" in 175, screws, washers... + 4,600 for the complete service w/ belts, valves, ignition... w/o parts that I provided mainly from Eurospares (90%), the rest from TRutlands. How do you get 35K$ ?
hence my "all things being equal" caveat... but a couple of other things (and i'm aware of your project)...as a wise Ferrari specialist i know well recently said, "...not all engine rebuilds are equal...". that's certainly true, but not all 'rebuilds' (unfortunately, it's a loose term) necessitate the same depth that you're currently going to... but yes, if you're talking about a 'rebuild' in the strictest sense, including liners, pistons and rings, head studs, main bearings and studs, rod bearings (big end and small end bushings/bearings but not likely rods themselves), rod bolts and nuts, thrusts, flywheel, chain, tensioner, guide shoes, valves, seats, guides, seals, carbs, fasteners, plating machine work including any required crank repairs, cam profile work, possible rod resizing, etc.,etc., then it could possibley exceed that number... but do they all need new everything ? of course not. nevertheless, i'd be very, very comfortable with that budget even if that depth was required... and we've 'rebuilt' half a dozen Colombo V-12's in the past 2 years and are building 2 right now... but the easy answer is that 'there is no easy answer' to the how much a rebuild costs because, again, " not all engine rebuilds are equal", nor should they be... then, of course, you factor in the particular needs of the car beyond that and that's a new story unto itself... PBI is talking about something completely different...but it certainly could have had all the work that was required on that particular motor for that number. whether it actually did or not isn't known to me.
Well, no, I am not talking about anything different. A lot of people will settle due to cost/ budget on a "rebuild" when it is more like a refresh. The extent of my rebuild is exactly that by definition, a complete replace/rebuild. It you actually take the time and measure every bolt and nut using the factory specs as a guide, replace all of the valves seats, springs, bushing, resize the rods and weight, and on and on, that would be a rebuild. Assemble, measure disassemble, fit, measure etc. Every item left out is a compromise and a compromise on cost, and the overall result will show this. I had the carbs bored with new shafts, and all new parts including the floats, with a flow test on each with exacting data/results. That is my expectation, and that is what I am willing to pay for. Any ancillary devices all also rebuilt or replaced. But that is just me.
perhaps you misunderstood what i meant about different...because clearly BB 512 1980 didn't understand what you were talking about. regardless, i applaud what you're currently doing. it does beg an obvious question though, if you were always as committed to perfection as you are now, then why was your car ever at the previous shop that caused you such problems ? you couldn't possibly have thought they would deliver the attention to detail that you are seeking now, could you ? even the quickest walk through there would suggest anything but organization or attention to detail...no ? Rock filled in most of the details of the situation for me as it unfolded, but i'd still like to hear your thoughts on this... in spite of the various threads you started on that debacle, there were always questions that never got answered.
Yes it will! I have a perfect example at my place right now. 80 boxer getting every nut, bolt , washer, bracket, lever, pivot, stud, pulley, pipe and clamps (you name it) are getting plated as per the factory. JE 10.5:1 hand finished pistons, every sub-assembly rebuilt, resized, refinished, fettled, measured and measured again. Liners bored over 1mm in the block with a torque plate with head gasket and new o-rings to ensure the liners are under the same compression load as they will be when in use as well as perfectly square to the crank centerline. Balanced assy, new ferrea valves, rebuilt water pump, all bearings, seals, rebuilt and rebushed carbs, new cap, rotor, wires, plugs, clutch, bellhousing release shaft bearings, new crank drive gear ($1000), powder coated mounts, plated motor mounts, 2000 fasteners replated! Then, one of my carriers, 4th and 5th gears, all new syncros, bearings, seals, reverse idler shaft and bearings, case cleaned, painted, detailed and then all the plated hardware put back on so it is concours correct. All that for the supposed cost of just an engine build!
Going the route of pulling the liners to o-ring them prior to boring is worth the time and effort. It's been shown in wet sleeve engines that the pressure of a new o-ring compressed in the taper of a block half way down the liner can cause a riser in the bore. Didn't prove that on this application but it's a common issue so why take the chance? No body can argue the liners being machined where each one specifically resides under load is an error. It's more work and takes out certain variables that other procedures create. The only thing I could've done more is to heat the block coolant jackets with a special hot gas to duplicate the operating temp but this isn't NASCAR or topfuel.
The 2 front grills were repainted by the last French Owner. See my pics (I obtained them from him). As the front turn lights were changed in amber, the hexnuts in spinners...
I am seriously thinking about making an offer on this car but have no idea of how much is a fair market price. High mileage car with engine rebuilt in 2009(less than 1000 miles since then) No books and owner manuals No previous service records(except for engine rebuilt) Repainted(without black stripes on side of the car) No spare tire(can I even find one of these) I would say the car is an 8/10 I know at one point the car spent time in Toronto(maybe even imported by Gentry Lane) Thanks all for your help
I'm curious if you consider this an 8/10, what would a 5 out of 10 be then? Was this engine built in by a Ferrari expert with a proper reputation, that understands how these work, and used correct Ferrari parts , not similar parts....but correct parts? Or was it built from a regular shop that does just motors in general....in a distant far away place ? Look at the engine rebuild invoice...if a boxer engine full rebuild doesn't have a few pages detailing the parts....mmmmm.....might want to consider you're 8 out of 10
Thanks for your reply. There are 4 pages worth of parts and labor for a final cost of $31,000.So I would call that an engine rebuilt.But what do I know.This is why I am asking for advice. Yes repairs were performed by a well known Italian cars specialist. Do you think I am overgenerous with my car evaluation? Thanks again
Next step then is, the 31k how is it split up between parts and labour and taxes...does the 31 include the taxes....cause if it does that's 4k ...and now the engine rebuild is 27k, which is a little on the light side for boxer rebuild.....best to block out all the personal details, and post the parts list on here for those in the know to give you the best advice possible. Then you have an idea of what your dealing with.....the last thing you want to go through and a half a build, and then spend another 30 to get the car right once you get it.....just my .2cent, but there are great people here that will chime in on e rebuild. I will honest with you, I am uncomfortable with a Italian car specialist doing a rebuild on a 12 cylinder Ferrari.....can you validate if they have done other Ferrari engines? Cheers !
