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Anyone looking for a 360GT/N-GT or a 430GT?

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by CornersWell, Feb 6, 2010.

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  1. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
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    #1 CornersWell, Feb 6, 2010
  2. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe Mansion
    #2 amenasce, Feb 6, 2010
    Starting bid for 360 is interesting. Very high for 430. They also have a 575 GTC !
     
  3. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    #3 tomgt, Feb 6, 2010
  4. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #4 CornersWell, Feb 6, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2010
    All three cars are on ebay at the moment.

    Starting bids (below the reserve) are $125K, $300K and $400K, respectively.

    The 575 description discusses the N.Technology build, but it also says Michelotto built this particular car. Verification required.

    CW
     
  5. Kelsa

    Kelsa F1 Veteran

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    Crazy Chinaman
    #5 Kelsa, Feb 6, 2010
    our own forum member 360C has the best N-GT for sale if not in the world i reckon. full resto, racing history. the war paint is simply amazing!!!
     
  6. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #6 CornersWell, Feb 7, 2010
    Is 360C's car for sale?

    CW
     
  7. ivo73

    ivo73 F1 Rookie
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    Ivo Pucci
    #7 ivo73, Feb 7, 2010
    dear CW,

    yes 360C's Michelotto racecar is for sale ,and Kelsa is right with the describtion !

    regards
    Ivo
     
  8. 275gtb6c

    275gtb6c Formula 3
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    #8 275gtb6c, Feb 8, 2010
    There are quite a few for sale (and on sale) right now. When I bought mine I had quite a few options to pick from. Still a lot of car for the money, go for the best and do it now as normally prices goes up after a few years.
    And 360C has a very nice car indeed!

    Ciao
    Oscar
     
  9. ivo73

    ivo73 F1 Rookie
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    Ivo Pucci
    #9 ivo73, Feb 8, 2010
    Dear Oscar,

    does your car still have the little assembly number plate in the engine compartment ?
    If yes could i know it please ?
    PM me if you wish .

    thanks & regards
    Ivo
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #10 rob lay, Feb 8, 2010
  11. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #11 CornersWell, Feb 9, 2010
    There have been several 360GTs and N-GTs available over the past 12-18 months. For the asking prices, they're a LOT of car.

    CW
     
  12. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 ross, Mar 16, 2010
    as i understand it, there were only about 20 or so michelotto prepared 360 gt's. but there seem to be many more 360 c cars that have had the gt modifications made. obviously the michelotto ones are more valuable since they are quasi factory, but how about the other modified cars? are they worth more than a regular 360 c, if the work was well executed of course. and how much better do they drive/race than the regular car.

    (line of reasoning for my question is that in sniffing around, i have now been shown/offered about a dozen cars and wonder how to compare them)
     
  13. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #13 CornersWell, Mar 16, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
    I'd have to check the numbers, but the Michelotto-built cars were fewer than 20 (15, maybe?). And, you're correct that a number of 360Cs have had the GT mods added. However, I would challenge your assertion that the Michelotto-built cars are more valuable than the factory-built GT cars. Given the Classiche Programme's unwillingness to certify the Michelotto-built cars, they certainly traded at discounts to the factory-built cars. Now that Classiche has created their "of significant interest" category, they may have equalized in value, as they can get some kind of papers. Ironically, other Michelotto-built cars included the 333SP (last bunch...maybe 16 on?) and the F40LM, so it was inevitable that Classiche would have had to yield at some point. Everyone knew what the Michelotto-built 360 N-GTs were and are, but Classiche was completely infuriating about it when I inquired about them. Michelotto-built N-GTs are converted 360Cs, btw.

    The pricing on the 360Cs with GT add-ons (really just aero) would seem to trade at 360C prices. Minor adjustment, perhaps, for the add-ons. But, they're definitely NOT GTs or N-GTs. So, there's (and should be) a BIG difference in pricing between them.

    CW
     
  14. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #14 ross, Mar 16, 2010
    ok, besides the aero and the brakes that both have, what are the other differences between factory gt's and after market gt's ?
     
  15. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #15 CornersWell, Mar 16, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2010
    Factory-built GTs and Michelotto-built N-GTs are reasonably comparable. The 360Cs with add-ons are just that. Totally different cars. Several years ago, Road & Track did a comparison of the 360, 360C and 360GT cars at Mont Tremblant. I had a quick look for the article, but couldn't find it. That's as good a place as any to get the basic differences. Essentially, the difference is measured in seconds per lap. Not tenths.

    Here's an interesting article discussing the differences between the 360GT and 430C, though...

    http://www.321ignitionmag.com/news/3/Ferrari-360GT-versus-Ferrari-430-Challenge

    CW
     
  16. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
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    #16 360C, Mar 16, 2010
    It's easier to say almost everything is different between the two. The aftermarket GT's pretty much just have an aero package. tacked on to a 360C. The N-GT and GT cars are built up from a bare shell and just about everything is modified. There is also a huge difference between one GT/N-GT and another as they were built to the owners spec/cheque book. The later cars are more highly developed with sequential gearbox and engine management. Different teams also modified the cars above and beyond the out of the box offering.
    The N-GT/GT cars were hugely expensive to buy new and expensive to run. I have the invoice for my car S/N 11 and the cost was something like $750k Australian all up. Veloqx then bought it and spent millions of pounds developing their 3 cars over the next 2 years in British GT and FIA GT.
    It is a very trick car.
     
  17. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
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    #17 360C, Mar 16, 2010
    I think the speed difference between a 360C and an N-GT was measured here at about 1 second a km very early on. With development the gap widened even further.
     
  18. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #18 CornersWell, Mar 16, 2010
    Fiorano lap times...

    http://www.fastestlaps.com/car458574714c7b2--3.html

    Ferrari F2004 (2004, Michael Schumacher) 0.55.999
    Ferrari F2003-GA (2003, Michael Schumacher) 0.56.33
    Ferrari 248 F1 (2006, Felipe Massa) 0.57.099
    Ferrari F2007 (2007, Felipe Massa) 00'58.360
    Ferrari F2005 (2005, Michael Schumacher) 0.57.146
    Ferrari F2002 (2002, Michael Schumacher) 0.57.476
    Ferrari F310B (1997, Michael Schumacher) 0.59.00
    Ferrari F399 (1999, Luca Badoer) 1.00.226
    Ferrari 412T1 (1994, Jean Alesi) 1.00.31
    Maserati MCC (Andrea Bertolini) 1.11.711
    Ferrari 333SP (slicks) 1.11.90
    Ferrari 333SP (slicks & restrictor) 1.13.00
    Ferrari FXX (Andrea Bertolini) 1.16.20
    Ferrari 599 XX 1.17.00
    Ferrari 360 GT 1.17.00
    Ferrari 360 N-GT (2003) 1.18.90
    Ferrari Enzo (2003) 1.22.30
    Ferrari 360 Challenge (2003) 1.22.40
    Maserati Trofeo 1.23.848
    Ferrari F355 Challenge 1.24.40
    Maserati Trofeo 1.25.00
    Ferrari 355 Challenge (1997, Nicola Larini) 1.25.40
    Ferrari 355 Challenge (1995, versión de calle) 1.26.50
    Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano (2006) 1.26.500
    Ferrari F50 1.27.00
    Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale 1.28.00
    Ferrari F430 1.28.50
    Ferrari F40 1.29.60
    Ferrari 360 Modena 1.31.00
    Ferrari 575M Maranello 1.31.512
    Ferrari 550 Maranello 1.32.528
    Ferrari 348 Challenge 1.33.00
    Ferrari F355 F1 (1997) 1.33.00
    Ferrari F355 (1994) 1.34.00
    Ferrari F512M (1995) 1.35.00
    Ferrari 512TR (1992) 1.35.00
    Ferrari 456 GT 1.35.00
    Maserati 4200 GT 1.35.00
    Ferrari 288 GTO 1.36.00
    Ferrari Testarossa (1984) 1.36.00
    Ferrari 348TB (1989) 1.37.00
    Ferrari 288GTO 1.37.00
    Ferrari F512M 1.37.00
    Porsche 959 1.37.00
    Ferrari 456 GT (1992) 1.40.00
    Ferrari 328 GTB 1.44.00
     
  19. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #19 CornersWell, Mar 16, 2010
    Also, what 360C says about the production differences between 360GTs and N-GTs is accurate. Although, I would guess that most were pretty similar (notwithstanding the Veloqx cars).

    Price on the GT from Michelotto or SpA was in the $450K USD range. Price for a 360C was half that, easily.

    CW
     
  20. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
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    #20 360C, Mar 17, 2010
    The Fiorano lap times are not an accurate measure of speed as Ferrari tends to use them to sell whatever model they are currently trying to flog. In the case of the N-GT vs GT times Ferrari had just taken the GT programe "in house" and were trying to sell the new GT's up. In reality Michelotto still built them.

    I have driven an N-GT and an early paddle pop gearbox GT back to back at Phillip Island. My N-GT had more power, a MUCH faster sequential gearbox and superior aero. I was about 2 seconds a lap slower in the GT, back to back.

    There is so much variance with these things, even on the same day that it is difficult to make direct comparisons eg: the brand, condition and age of the slicks on each car can make seconds difference, same track and same day back to back. So I reckon Fiorano lap times are an interesting; but not that accurate guide.
     
  21. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
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    #21 360C, Mar 17, 2010
    I seem to recall the list price of a 360C was $180k US?
     
  22. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #22 CornersWell, Mar 17, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
    I agree that Fiorano lap times may not be the most reliable or hyper-accurate measuring sticks, but I really put them up there to highlight the difference between the GT and the Challenge cars. A pretty significant difference (between 4 and 5 seconds). But, considering the source, take it for what it's worth.

    I can't remember the selling price in USD of the 360C, but I remember it being around the $200K mark. Regardless, $180K is close enough. Either way, less than half the GT car price.

    CW
     
  23. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #23 CornersWell, Mar 17, 2010
    Also, if anyone has that Road & Track comparison article electronically, please post it up.

    Thanks,

    CW
     
  24. 360C

    360C F1 World Champ
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    #24 360C, Mar 18, 2010
    Fair points. They do give a fair picture of how much faster the GT is over the challenge.

    I suspect 360C's did change hands at $200k plus. They bent 12 cars at the opening US round as I recall. They were in short supply initially and there was a premium market for them.
     
  25. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
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    #25 CornersWell, Mar 20, 2010
    BTW, the asking prices have been updated...

    360 N-GT $275K
    430 GT $700K
    575 GT $700K

    I have to say, it gets more humorous every time I visit that site!

    CW
     

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