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Anyone see the report on Dateline NBC on car dealers?

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by WJHMH, Dec 6, 2003.

  1. WJHMH

    WJHMH Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 5, 2001
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    I missed it last night but I read all about it on the website. For anyone that works at a dealership like I do, this just makes me sick when asscrowns get away with crap like this.

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/1001205.asp
     
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  3. AJS328

    AJS328 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 23, 2003
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    I didn't see the show but my F&I manager did and we discussed it in our meeting this morning. It is unfortunate that they have to exploit a few fraudulent dealers and make the rest of us look bad at the same time.
     
  4. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    Mr. Doody
    they (nbc?) were "exploiting" dealers?

    just like any business, there are good places to spend your money and bad places to spend your money. caveat emptor.

    way back when, i bought a honda. they didn't have the car i wanted, so they had to get it from another dealer. the process dragged on and on. the end of the quarter approached and they kept bugging me to come in and pay for the car. i of course wasn't about to pay for a car THEY didn't even have, let alone me having it!

    so on the day before the last day of the quarter they called me and left a message "WE HAVE YOUR CAR please come down and pick it up immediately so we can book the sale this quarter". so i'm all excited that my car FINALLY has shown up! i finalizing my financing with my bank and tell them to get the check ready for my pick-up. i call the dealer back for the VIN (the bank obviously wants it). uh, well, they don't have that, but they tell me i should just come down and we'll finish up the paperwork there. obviously that doesn't fly with the bank - no VIN no collateral no check. i call back again and finally push them and push them ("uh, why can't you just go out back and write it down?"). of course they didn't have the car, didn't really know where it was, and didn't even have the VIN of it (ie: they probably still hadn't found the car yet). what schmucks.

    i don't nickel and dime my car dealers - whether it's a jeep or a ferrari. i don't have a problem with people making a profit - even a healthy one. i just want to be treated, at a minimum, like an intelligent adult, which is apparently not always a given. sheesh!

    doody.
     
  5. Mojo

    Mojo Formula 3

    Sep 24, 2002
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    SHARKS
     
  6. Nibblesworth

    Nibblesworth Formula 3
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    Nov 29, 2002
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    There are very few "fair" dealers out there. I've worked just about every position there is it work, from sales to GSM, and I can say, from experience, that the entire business is a total racket.

    Take "leg", for example. What a crock! It's makes it SOOOOO damn easy for an F&I mgr to sell the sh*tty warranty or paint protection. It makes me sick!

    For those still in the business, trust me when I say you have a jaded eye towards dealer business. But, leave the business and then go try and buy a car like a regular joe, and you'll see all the nasty tricks and repulsive crap that is pulled.

    Disgusting business that TRULY needs an overhaul. Problem is, the consumers are so used to dealer treatment that they think something is fishy if they don't get it.

    Ah well.
     
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  8. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
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    Rob Guess
    I have seen dealers here in the Phx AZ area that will get your drivers license and hold it for the test drive and then now give it back to you until you buckle under from the pressure.

    When i bought my truck back in June i went to several dealers, i put dowm my ground rules right up front and one of them was that i will show you my DL and them keep it I was told by almost 20 dealers that they were not interested in my business.

    Once i found a dealer that did put up with my rules it did not take more than 30 mins to go from making a descision to driving away in my new car. Most people i know here sit around for hours while they apply the thumb screws further and further.

    The one thing that i have found from my experence is that the more the dealer adveritises on TV, Radio and newspapers. The more shady they seem to be here in the Valley of the sun.

    Rob Guess "The Other Rob"
     
  9. SMC

    SMC Rookie

    Nov 16, 2003
    48
    Hang on a sec.......

    The video MAY be a bit unfair regarding the first point - reducing her payment but not the price of the car. It's not shown or heard whether "Big Al" said anything to her about reducing the price of the car, just that she wanted a lower monthly payment, which he did. Did Big Al say "I can lower your monthly payment by extending you from 60 to 72 months" ? - We don't know, it wasn't shown on the vedio. If he did, then where's the foul? If she said "I need my payments to be less" and he said "OK - done, you now have a lower payment" but didn't explain how he reduced the payment, then did he really to anything wrong/illlegal?? Where does it become her responsibility to notice when she signs the contract that it say's montly payments 72, not 60???

    Now clearly, if Big Al said "I've reduce the price of the car, so your payment will be lower" but kept the price the same and just extended her payments, which the video wants us to assume, then he was wrong. But again, isn't it her responsibiliy to look at the sale price before she signs?

    And as far as the F&I guy changing her income from 1,000 to 1,800 - that's just wrong - that guy's an idiot and needs to be fired! But again, isn't she an accomplice when she signs a contract based on a falsely reported credit accplication? They don't say anything about that!

    Not trying to come to anybodys defense, it just bothers me when the reporting is just as "slight-of-hand" as they claim the dealers are being.
     
  10. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    aren't these the same dateline guys who were blowing up pick up trucks?

    doody.
     
  11. mondial85

    mondial85 Karting

    Sep 9, 2003
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    Casey Slattery
    I didnt think dateline really exposed anything. I sat through the whole thing, expecting to lean about some HUGE industry scheme. All they really did was give some car buying hints that are obvious to any informed buyer: read what your signing, have a bank do your financing, dont let them sell you anything you dont need, ect. I didnt really learn anything from it. I just couldnt believe a girl that made 12k a year was buying a 28k car! If there was a lesson, it was that financing and crediters allow us to buy stuff we cant afford. Am I the only person in the world that still pays cash for stuff?
     
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  13. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2003
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    I like some of the ads they have out here. picture a redneck type of voice saying "I was upside down in 2 trades and they took them both and now i have a new SUV!! Thanks"

    Now lets see if this was a true case now the guy is paying $80K for a $30K SUV.

    Rob Guess "The Other Rob"
     
  14. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
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    Sunny
    So, where you live, cars, maybe wedding rings and wedding, since you were old enough to be employed, you've never needed a credit rating and always had a wad of cash for whatever you wanted? Never had to put anything on a credit card before, from dinner to emergency vehicle repairs? Lucky you.

    For working class people like me, things like houses, major vehicle repairs, new large purchases, we either finance it or go without it. If you had to do the same and choose to go without, good for you.

    The lady who makes 12K gross, even if that was her net take home, must take the bus until she can pay cash for a deprecating asset? I guess she should suck it up when she needs to buy an economy car, save, and look into public transit.

    Please. Spare us the only pay cash rhetoric.
     
  15. tvrfreak

    tvrfreak F1 Rookie
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    Mar 31, 2003
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    Even if you don't have a credit history, you will get approved for a mortgage if you qualify on the basis of your income and assets. Most financially responsible people do not carry credit balances. The only reason they use credit cards is to avoid having to lug cash and/or checks around, and to essentially write out one check for a whole bunch of transactions and for a month of free credit (as long as you pay on time, pay in full, and use credit cards with no fees or fees that are more than offset by the benefits they provide). These days, debit cards will serve the same purpose.

    The only reason for keeping credit cards is car rentals...you need a credit card unless you are willing to wire in the security deposit and other documentation beforehand--definitely not worth the hassle. Plus, some cards provide good supplemental insurance coverage in case you have an accident.

    Going back to cash (or cash equivalent) is tough for a while, but very doable--it really helps you see where the money is going. If you are upside down on your finances and need to get a handle on them, you need to do this. Most people who make the switch never go back to credit. They discover just how dangerous credit can be--it's very easy (and very, very tempting) to over-extend yourself and ruin your life.

    Also, studies have shown that those who switch to cash and then go back to using credit cards end up managing their finances much more responsibly.
     
  16. Slim

    Slim Formula 3

    Oct 11, 2001
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    richard
    Yep, I too am an all cash guy and I'm by no means wealthy. I just did the credit thing during the dot.com boom and got bit in the ass. So now it's cash or nothing and no more worries...(I've also finally discovered that I don't really "need" things I once thought I did.)

    BTW, I have rented cars (twice) and a u-haul truck using only my wells fargo debit/check card (with visa logo but not a credit card per se since it is only connected to checking account not credit line).
     
  17. mondial85

    mondial85 Karting

    Sep 9, 2003
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    Casey Slattery
    "Please. Spare us the only pay cash rhetoric."

    Let me rephrase that, am I the only person who payes cash for nonessentials? Things like emergency repairs, a home (which most EVERYBODY morgages), and small luxuries are different from a luxury car. The girl on dateline (who was my age) was buying a new sports car, not an economy car. I believe that it is unwise for a young person to risk their credit on such a lavish purchase. No 20 year old NEEDS a 28k sports car, but if they want one bad enough, why not set goals and save for it and settle for a $500 beater in the mean time? I did it for a couple years. In addition, dateline showed that if she would have paid cash for it, she would have saved over 4k. For nonessential purchases, I think cash is the best option. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is mine.
     
  18. tvrfreak

    tvrfreak F1 Rookie
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    Let me rephrase that, since you are being too polite. She is being STUPID. Even if she could afford it, she paid $4k more than she needed to.

    :)
     
  19. Exoticbro

    Exoticbro Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Chuck Ligon
    This story had some very good information.
    The most important, BE EDUCATED.

    You notice all of the dealers were owned by multi-dealer
    corporations. These seem to be the ones pulling the
    most shenanigans as the owners can insulate themselves from
    responsibility. Also I do wonder how many dealers they had
    to go to before they got there story, NBC does not say.

    I will say this, my wife works at a highline dealer and has
    many wonderful and loyal clients.

    She did not see the entire show, but she did see the last
    part when the "expert" bought the car with his own financing
    and no extras.( you notice he was stern but polite not rude
    or abusive).
    I asked her what she thought of this type of customer.

    Her response: Those are dream customers, would love to have
    one of those everyday.

    The moral here is, go in be prepared(and polite)and willing to
    give a fair price and everyone will have a good experience.
     
  20. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
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    Please accept my apology for being rude inconsiderate, I'm in a sour puss mood and I could have phrased my post a bit better.

    And here is the crux of the matter, regardless of cash or credit, there are purchases that are 'non-essential' to some and essential to others. Can one expect someone to uphold financial responsibility without taking the small steps first such as a car loan?

    Did I at 23 making $45k/yr gross need a $34k luxury sedan? *edit: $34k after interest, addl warranty (come on, its a Jag mind you), tax and title* Anyone you could have asked, from family and financial analysts to friends and co-workers, would say no way. However, it was that purchase that has undoubtedly changed my life, for the better, in subtle and not so subtle ways.

    It was more than just a 'feel good' purchase and an over indulgence. Without it, the people I call friends today I would have never met. That spark to jump in and drive, no matter how far the destination, gave me a chance to break my introverted ways.

    It was that over indulgence that led me to accept the offer to travel to Newport Beach on company business because I simply wanted to drive where I met the love of my life. Having been single for 4 straight years, I was truly convinced that life was as good as it gets alone.

    Some may say, she was stupid. Indeed, she maybe. I may have been too in your eyes and those of my friends and loved ones. I didn't NEED my daily driver.

    I don't want to imagine the life I would be leading without it. As my income has substantially grown in the last 3 years, my only regret is I didn't opt for the slightly more expensive model, its the same extra $5k then as it is now to switch, except I'm duplicating my efforts to find the "right one."

    I would make the same mistake again. Better now while young as those who are single income family households will understand best, when the best for yourself changes to become the best for your family. These indulgences are not available very often in life and you only live once.

    I would finance my future Ferrari purchase or else the opportunity might slip by and it will be a long time before it could be justified again.

    As I mentioned in one thread, and the sentiments were echoed by others as well, better to have experienced ownership for 25 years than to wait 25 years if the difference was financing vs buying cash. You can't put a 'price tag' on that.

    *edit #2: I obtained my driver's license at 22, it was not a progression from a beater to something better, I went after what I wanted which has become the pattern for my life, that until this point, was uninspired and unremarkable.*

    Sunny
     
  21. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
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    Mr. Doody
    btw, a few of the authorized ferrari dealers fall into this category. some folks might argue that these particular outfits treat their six-figure ferrari car buyers no differently than they treat their $5000 used honda beater car buyers.

    doody.
     

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