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Anyone switch from a 488 Coupe to a 458 Spider-thoughts?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by rocketman, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. jac

    jac Karting

    Nov 4, 2005
    66
    Full Name:
    jack cohen
    Ok my pick is a 458 spider. I own a 16 911 targa as a daily driver. Also a 13 458 spider. I have not noticed unacceptable cowl shake in either. Every time i drive my 458 I laugh like a kid. Every time! I have not driven a 488 so i cannot compare that experience. 911 is excellent. 458 is excellent x2.
     
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  2. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2005
    256
    SoCal
    I feel like its a step back going from a 488 to a 458....you should be able to tell a huge difference. Why not go from your coupe to a 488 spider? I guess it depends on what your driving needs are....I say drive both the 488 spider and the 458 spider....one should make you smile more. Definitely coupes are boring for me but thats just me because Im a open top motoring guy.....my top is down 95% of my drives. The cost of cowl shakes for top down cruise along the coast is pure heaven and worth it.
     
  3. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula Junior

    May 29, 2019
    737
    Copenhagen
    Full Name:
    A.B
    It's a matter of opinion, not an absolute fact.
    When it comes to drifting, there is little doubt that the 488 and 458 Speciale does this a lot better. The Speciale has SSC and the 488 has SSC2 which aids this specifically.
    If you take away the sound, what exavtly is it that you think makes the 458 Spider better? I've logged lots of seat time in every incarnation of the 458 there is, and as a fun drivers car, I cannot for the life of me, see what makes it better. The chassis is very soft which does not add to a fun visceral experience, the suspension is borderline GT soft which does not help. It's fairly heavy compared to the others, which i. Turn hurts the power-to-weight ratio.
    As a drivers car, the 488 Spider feels very direct, the engine is super responsive because of the heaps of mid range punch. The suspension is firm but still comfortable enough to enjoy for hours, and the chassis is stiff and direct enough to rival the 458. Add to all of this a big improvement in ESC programming. Still safe and reassuring when needed, but much less intrusive when you want to really let it all hang out - in part thanks to the SSC2.
    Again, take away the sound, which the OP has already stated is not an issue, and I find no reasons which cod be considered objective, as to why the 458 is better and the 488 is boring.
    I find the 458 boring because it not only feels much slower and softer, but it also is much slower and softer.
    If speed and the modern tech is not that important, and a rawer bare bones experience is what one wants, simply skip the 458 all together and get n F430 Scud 16M. Now there's a drop to with some seriously quirky and attractive personallity. :)
     
  4. agrun

    agrun Formula Junior

    May 24, 2009
    699
    FLA
    We

    I guess it’s how you define boring. 488 far less noisy yet much, much quicker, with far fewer imperfections and improved technology. Not so boring, but hey, that’s just me.
     
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  5. tekaefixe

    tekaefixe Formula Junior

    May 10, 2012
    784
    CH
    Full Name:
    Paulo
    Now I see why you don’t understand the 458, I slide the car with everything off! Actually I don’t want any driver aids, it’s me and the car.
    Nothing beats a NA for drifts.
    The electronic needs you can keep them.
    That’s what you learn in a catheram.
     
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  6. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula Junior

    May 29, 2019
    737
    Copenhagen
    Full Name:
    A.B
    I can slide a 458 with everything off that's not exactly a monumental feat. I've held a drift in a Caterham 400R for well over a minute, so it's not like I'm completely without abilities in this regard. When you put a Speciale or a 488 into ESC OFF, the SSC is still active. It is by no means intrusive or and nor does it do it all for you. Look at it like a way to aide in setting the car up for better drifting.
    I was taught to drift in an "old" supercharged E30 M3 years ago, in a car that was built for drifting. Drifting a car built for drifting is a lot of fun and very exciting. And the way the SSC acts gives me a similar sense of balance.
    Lastly. N/A best for drifting? I suspect that most of the established drifting community and 95% of the D1 drivers will disagree. They seem to prefer turbos, and I myself definitely think it's more fun to drift a car with a ton of torque on tap. Makes for good smoke.
    But hey, we do agree on something. Drifting is a lot of fun :D
     
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  7. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,104
    +1 for 488 boring.

    Owned all the 458’s and bought a 488s.
     
  8. bobbyd

    bobbyd Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    703
    Funny when the 458 Spider was new and many of you guys were driving one NO ONE was commenting on how much flex was present nor how the car was too soft.

    Now many (especially those who have moved to 488’s) can’t stop criticizing it for these minor flaws.

    Bias?

    My take: 458 Spider is much better looking and sounds better than any 488. Plus it’s more than fast enough.

    Just IMO of course ....
     
  9. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    71,237
    Vegas baby
    I did. But I was shouted down so I clammed up.

    I gave the dealer back the car in 6 months.

    Its a really good car but the 458 coupe is just better IMO.
     
  10. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula Junior

    May 29, 2019
    737
    Copenhagen
    Full Name:
    A.B
    Of course it will be biased. The 488 owners are happy with their cars and think it is a step up.

    It no more biased than 458 owners that stick with what they have, either because that's what they prefer, or because they don't have the financial means to upgrade.

    Cars evolve, and so does the standards by which they are judged. Back when the 458 Spider was born, there was no 488 Spider, nor were there any McLaren MP4-12C. The drop top Gallardo was by comparison hopeless in so many ways it was not even funny, and Porsche had nothing more exiting or stiffer to offer. Yes, it was soft and flexed, but by comparison it was still a good drop top at the time. However, McLaren came along and everything changed. They set a new standard for soft top ridgidity by which all sports cars are now measured. And now all those who used to drive 458 Spiders are now experiencing the 488 and the McLaren offerings, so they are now realising how different the 458 Spider was.
    That's not about being biased or overly negative. That's simply just how we as humans evolve, learn and push the envelope along with our demands and expectations.

    I will add that like Mayor, I was always a bit unsure about the 458 Spider and I had no reservations about my opinion. However, at the time, it was what was the Ferrari benchmark for an open top sports car, and thus it was a matter of compromising.
    Now the 488 Spider is here and people are now able to choose a car with less flaws and drawbacks in this regard. And due to that fact, it's not wrong to advise that one might find that as things are now, and with what is available, some of us might feel that there are better choices available now, than what was there 9 years ago. Cars and technology age, and this means that some flaws become more apparent and to an extent, less tolerable.
    If this was not the case, we would still be using Moss boxes, live rear axles and incapable cooling systems.

    Just my 2c
     
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  11. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    May 21, 2006
    5,424
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    Ray Johns
    +1

    I've owned both the 458 coupe and 488 coupe - I really regret selling my 458. I had it for 3 amazing years. I've owned turbocharged cars in the past and thought "how bad could the 488 be"? When an opportunity came along at the dealership to trade-in the 458 and get a brand new 488, I decided to give it a shot. I mean, life is short, what the heck right?

    Ugh.. biggest mistake ever. Within 20 minutes of driving the 488 off the lot, I knew I had made a horrible mistake. Sounded awful, lacked that "ferrari magic" the 458 delivered. By comparison, the 458 is just an absolute pleasure to drive, while the 488 is more of a headache. Oh sure, the 488 is a bit faster and maybe has better brakes, but you certainly don't connect with it on the level you do with the 458 Italia.

    I got out of the 488 as fast as humanly possible - 6 months and a few hundred miles (mostly back and forth to the dealer) and I told them just get rid of this thing. Frankly, as soon as I got home from the dealership (125 miles), I told my girlfriend "this car sucks". I actually was going to take it right back to the dealership the next day, but they talked me down and suggested I give the car a chance - which I did. It only became worse with time. I really tried to warm up to the car, but I soon realized that every time I drove it, I came home stressed out and with a headache. With the 458, driving it was something I always looked forward to; it was more of an escape from the day to day pressures of life. I remember many times coming home from driving the car and thinking to myself "this car is amazing". I remember thinking how each trip was like owning my own roller coaster and how driving it into town to have dinner with my girlfriend was always such a great time. Even just cursing up the coast or down to Big Sur or whatever, driving the 458 was just always amazing - it never got old.

    And I'm sure plenty of people will chime in here and say "the 488 is great car" and "I don't understand people who talk about the exhaust note" or "I love the sound of my car", etc. When I read those comments, I wonder if they have ever owned a 458 or if they have, have they ever broken the tires loose in a corner or hit redline just because - because isn't that why we own super cars? To grab them by the balls and shake them out and scream "I own a ****ing Ferrari man!" :-D

    My experience with the 488 vs. 458 is that the 458 is like a mistress that you are always excited to spend time with, while the 488 is more like a nagging wife that makes you miserable. Plenty of people in this world are married to the latter... but that doesn't make it more fun, despite everyone telling you that you should get married and have kids haha :) If you just want to have the newest Ferrari out there and is the type who can't wait to watch Jay Leno's garage on TV, then hey, maybe the 488 is for you. Or if you always drive in auto mode and don't know the difference between oversteer and understeer, then you'll probably love the 488 and not even notice the styling wasn't done by Pininfarina... But if you are more of a car person and place some importance on your connection to the vehicles you own and how they perform, what they sound like, how they make you feel, etc. then my advice would be to stick to the 458. It's much more of what a Ferrari should be and has been up until this divergence into turbo cars, electric hybrids, and publicly traded companies that can't seem to win F1 races any longer.

    Maybe I haven't owned as many cars as some here, but I have owned a number of cars and a few Ferraris over the years. I will say I'm about as die hard a Ferrari loyalist as there is and for me and my money, I can say that the 458 is by far the best car I've ever had the pleasure to own/drive.

    I say be smart, stick with a car that paints a smile across your face, gives you pleasure when driving it, looks sexy as hell even when parked - and of course, one that makes the sounds you love when driving it. Without any doubt - among the V8 Ferraris out there - that's the Ferrari 458

    Ray
     
  12. dustman

    dustman F1 Rookie

    Jun 12, 2007
    4,104
    ^ well said. I handed the 488s keys back.
     
  13. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
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    Ray Johns
    That's exactly what I was going to do, but it would have burned too many bridges and rocked the boat a bit too much. Also, I view the dealership and people who work there more as friends than "just my local Ferrari dealer". Especially with the 488 deal, the person who I did that specific transaction with is a close personal friend of ours and stays at our home when in town, etc. So not really a situation where I can just take the keys back and say "undo this deal" - it would negatively impact my friend, and that's something I wouldn't do to any of the very few friends I have, let alone one working at Ferrari :)

    At the end of the day, the 488 is still a Ferrari and even the worst Ferrari is a far cry better than most other cars out there. It's just when you get spoiled by cars like the 355 or the 360 or the 458, you expect to continually be bowled over by the car maker you love so much. In this particular case, the 488 just didn't hit the mark for me, but it was up against very stiff competition in the form of the 458 Italia also, lest we forget.

    Not the end of the world, but when people ask for my opinion, I do have to agree that the 458 is a more exciting car to drive, especially if you are really a true lover of all things Ferrari.

    Ray
     
  14. veilstylez

    veilstylez Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2005
    256
    SoCal

    So what car do you have now? did you und up getting another 458?
    Also can I ask why the 488 gave you headaches?
     
  15. RayJohns

    RayJohns F1 Veteran
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    May 21, 2006
    5,424
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    Ray Johns
    Right now, I'm rebuilding a 1990 Toyota pickup :)

    I currently do not have a Ferrari, since selling the 488. I also declined my F8 allocation, given the disappointment with the 488. I was going to spec out an 812 Superfast, but that's on hold for the time being. My father recently had an accident and died suddenly (he was 92), so we are tied up handling his estate right now. I was mainly only staying in Monterey for my dad, but he was the last of my family here, so there's no real reason to stay here any longer. I'm preparing to sell my primary residence here in Monterey and will be relocating down south in order to start a new business. So, at least for a bit here, not really the best timing for another Ferrari right now. Down the road, I have my sights set on either the 812 or perhaps something more crazy, such as an F40. But for an F40, I'd want another home with a garage that has a lift.

    I have thought about just getting another 458, but the one I sold was such a great spec. I almost feel like another 458 would sort of forever exist in its shadow. The Speciale is a beautiful car, but I'm in my mid 50's, not my mid 30's anymore.

    As far as the 488 giving me a headache... I think a large part of it was just the horrible exhaust note between 3000 and 5000 RPM. Also, the more twitchy steering didn't help matters much. Additionally, the shifts at redline were pure garbage - jerky and accompanied by a god awful sound and boggy hesitation sensation - which I presume was some sort of blow off valve setup to avoid over pressuring the intake system/turbos. Shifting the 488 under full power was like clubbing a baby seal to death. In the 458, shifts were much sharper; the car felt more connected to the road and inspired a great deal of confidence - the 458 felt like my partner in crime when driving fast. Driving the 488 felt more like driving a turbo charged Oldsmobile with upgraded suspension. Yes it was very fast; yes it handled okay, but at the limit and at speeds over 100, it didn't feel like a super car to me. It felt off to me. It felt muted. It just felt like a ruined 458, sadly.

    Without fail, anytime I returned home from driving the 488, I was glad to get out of that thing and it just left me in a bad mood. What's the point of owning a car that makes you feel like that every time you drive it?

    The 458 is a thrill ride. The 488 is more of a buzz kill.

    That's the best way I can describe my personal experiences with both cars.

    I did test drive an 812 Superfast. Also a Lusso GTC4 V12 - both of those cars are pretty amazing - especially the 812. Even during just a brief 5 to 10 mile test drive, I could immediately see that the 812 Superfast is a car that you could easily have a love affair with :)

    Anyway, just my 2 cents. No offense to anyone who loves their 488. For me, it just wasn't a match.

    Ray
     
  16. scarfiotti355

    scarfiotti355 Karting

    Mar 25, 2009
    198
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Lodovico

    Yes absolutly reason
    458 spider is one of the best Ferrari V8 road car I have the opportunity to drive as often as possible and bought new when I could order the Model 488 on 2015 for the same price! NA Ferrari engine is incomparable and its value will increase from year to year
     
  17. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Formula Junior

    May 29, 2019
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    Copenhagen
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    A.B
    What do you think a 458 Spider will sell for in a year? And what are they currently selling for?
     
  18. rocketman

    rocketman Formula 3
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    Oct 1, 2009
    1,134
    #43 rocketman, Jun 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
    Current dealer asking prices for low mileage 1 or 2 owner cars are from $225-245
    I appreciate and am in awe of the extreme bi-partisan feelings regarding the two generations of cars.
    Obviously there is no right or wrong.
    Borrowing one tonight and will have 24 hours to live with it so will have a better idea after the weekend.
     
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  19. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
    2,434
    France
    Obviously different people have different tastes - when I drove a 458 I was impressed by the gearbox (the 599 I owned then, and the 575 I had before, were far from the DCT efficiency with their robotised boxes) but was really unimpressed by the noise (I just thought, I'd better have some power than that useless shouting - because coming from a mighty V12, that was just what I felt).
    I said it numerous times, but to me the turbo is the best thing that could happen to the 458 - eventually get some power with no weight penalty. A screaming engine to impress bystanders is not my thing :D
    Regarding market values, a 2015 458 spider had a higher list price than a 2015 488 GTB - so some 458 spiders asking more than early 488 GTB does not mean everyone has accepted the 458 is a better car and is valued more for this reason.
     
  20. Jamie traina

    Jamie traina Rookie

    Jul 6, 2018
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    Jamie Traina
    I have a 12 and and there’s no flex. Amazing car
     
  21. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Rookie
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    Nov 9, 2008
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    How did they improve the framework and suspension on the 488 vs 458 to improve the stability?


    Sent from my 16M
     
  22. LVP488

    LVP488 Formula 3

    Jan 21, 2017
    2,434
    France
    IIRC the 488 uses many more different kinds of aluminium alloys than the 458.
     
  23. scarfiotti355

    scarfiotti355 Karting

    Mar 25, 2009
    198
    Finland
    Full Name:
    Lodovico

    Ray
    I approve you completely!!! ( sorry for bad English from french swiss)
    your testimony is touching especially for this difficult time with the separation your father.
    To return to Ferrari, your story is beautiful, fair and rewarding for a Ferrari so successful as the 458!
    and I wish Ferrari to read you,
    What a more beautiful hymn for the 458!

    I think, we do not say enough that the line designed by Pininfarina is extraordinary and that the 458 is the last Ferrari that Pinin has perfectly created!!!
    and it adds a lot of value to this model that has so much. I advise you to buy a 458, it will continue to evolve with their value.
    This Ferrari gives me a smile and every time I ride my spider,I say: WAOh! what a success!
     
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  24. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2017
    250
    San Diego, CA
    @OP I was in your position recently. I drove a 488 gtb and spider, an F12, and the 458 coupe and spider. I ended up purchasing a 2015 458 spider. The car is versatile, engaging, beautiful, and sounds great. IMO it looks better than the 488 because it doesn't have the air intake on the side. If you drive it with the roof down there is some cowl shake but it is minimal. There is no cowl shake with the roof up. I have found that if you turn on bumpy rode the cowl shake is gone. For some reason the car doesn't feel as planted as the 488s that I drove... but there is a more visceral feel to the car. Drive them back to back and make the decision thats right for you. Now that Ferrari genuine has released an update for the infotainment system, I think the 458 might be a better way to go over all.
     
  25. benny11_85308

    benny11_85308 Karting

    Dec 12, 2016
    139
    Most people either like spiders (like me) or don't. I will take the little differences for the option to have the top down (drive it with top down 95% of the time). I had a spider, went to a coupe, missed not being able to put the top down. Now I have a 14 458 spider and love the NA engine over the 488 turbo, all personal choice of course. Drive both and you will know.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
     
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