Anyone try copper gaskets, instead of OEM?

I found a company on the internet that makes custom gaskets, out of copper. Apparently they have ferrari v12 gaskets also, programmed in cad/cam. Anyone used them???

With the extremely high cost of ferrari cam/head gaskets, this seems like a great idea. Any pitfalls? Do they leak more?

I would think this would be an upgrade!

Thoughts? Cost?

http://headgasket.com/gaskets.html

 

i believe Norwood uses them when you want to go with a high boost turbo setup.

 

These guys make custom gaskets and have 308/328 available http://www.cometic.com/default.aspx I believe Cometics are used on the 4 liter project. Copper headgaskets are old technology. Muti layer steel (MLS) is the way to go. See here http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us80222.htm
and http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/eb80440.htm

 

MLS is the way to go now, it is what we use for the 3.5 & 4 liter engines. Cometic makes ours, Steve & I worked with them to make the gaskets for our engines & also regular 308 engines. I actually sent them one of my blocks & a head for them to do the development work.

 

My understanding is that the head and block need to be machined with a small groove around the chamber to accept the steel compression ring in the copper gaskets. I thought long about using them on my Boxer; they are much cheaper, and a better gasket, but the cost of the machining is daunting. The also need to be used with the correct assembly paste to ensure sealing of the water passages in particular.

 

Why would you need a compression ring? Wouldn't the copper gasket by itself be adequate?

As an aside, if companies already have cad/cam schematics of these gaskets, can't they make copies of the original ferrari gaskets out of a generic base material similar to the original???

I have never held a ferrari gasket in my hand, so if it has some odd special features, then I can understand its cost. If its just a basic gasket, why can't these be cut in bulk by a cnc machinist out of regular gasket material?

I would think that some serious cash can be made here, by someone with cnc skill...

 

The Ferrari gaskets (El-ring) are the same design as Felpro permatorque, for literally fifteen times the cost. Local dealer wants $450/ea for a 308. $225 is the best I've found at other dealers. Same gasket for a mass produced car... $30-35.

 

i use cooper gasket on my truck(diesel engine) ,the BEST thing they have is that when i take the head off, i just pull the gasket out, no cleaning, no scrubbing, NO DEBRY goes inside!! It's amazing, and so fast.
With the OEM gasket i have to scrape the old gasket off and its time consuming and leaves a lot of debry EVERYWHERE!!!

 

I researched this a bit about a year ago, when I seen the high cost of head gaskets. The copper head gasket was used from the beginning of time by virtually all the car makers up through the 1950's. It was at that time that MLS, or composite gaskets made thier entrance. But in the performance world, running a blower for example or in racing, the copper gasket has remained far superior. On the turbo cars from the 70's to present, its a much better way of preventing the engine blowing out a head gasket, as the copper just wont blow unless something extreme happens.

From what I have learned, the major car makers jumped on the composition gasket for two major reasons. First, it will seal without as precision of machining, so they can make crude finishes and it still wont leak. The second is that they were cheaper. Win/win for them eh? So to run a copper gasket you need a very clean surface and the smoother its finished the better. You will also probably get more little drips around the edges, as the composition "squishes" more as being paper or asbestos it seals a little better around the perimeter. But a thin line of RTV could take care of that.

In higher performance applications, they will actually cut a small groove around the combustion chamber for a fine stainless wire to fit into, that crushes against the copper for even greater sealing. I always wondered why aircraft engines remained so clean and didnt leak along the case seam. Watching an old guy building an engine, I watched him take that red colored gasket cement, and paint on a film, and lay down a thread of light string. Something simular could work in this application. Also, its really not rocket science at all. In the old days a guy would just cut out a gasket from copper sheet and tada, a head gasket. They didnt have CAD and CNC machines down at Joes garage back then.

 

It's also an old Drag Racing technique I found out years ago that can handle serious compression and power. If your changing it….don’t hesitate to do it…