Anyone use Hooseir R3S05 (compare Mich Pilot Sport PS2) | FerrariChat
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Anyone use Hooseir R3S05 (compare Mich Pilot Sport PS2)

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by enjoythemusic, Feb 27, 2006.

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  1. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #1 enjoythemusic, Feb 27, 2006
  2. rob lay

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    #2 rob lay, Feb 27, 2006
    Yes, I'm racing the R3S05 on the RX8. What do you want to know, I'm still learning them as most of my experience was Toyo's. From what I know so far the R3S05 has much meatier corners, so they shouldn't cord there as easy like the R3S04. Hoosier recommends a 45 hot pressure, which I've had to start cold at 32-35 to hit. That is MUCH higher pressures than the Toyo's worked best at, but I trust the Hoosier engineers. Toyo's seemed to get faster after a couple of runs, Hoosiers appear to be fastest first run and maintain for first 4-5 heat cycles before starting to drop off hard by 8th cycle.

    Not for the street, but I highly recommend the new Hoosier rain tires for wet tracks. I raced last weekend and had one qualifying session on them with a damp track. I was the slowest class of the group with the T1/T2/GT1-GT3/AS high hp cars and even with cat problems (down 25 mph on straight) I still hooked up in the wet and qualified 9th of 30 overall. They were amazing!
     
  3. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

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    #3 cwwhk, Feb 27, 2006
    Not R3S05 experience, but I did race with R3S04 in a 360 Challenge during 2005. Tire is good for up to about 120 laps (500km). By far the fastest tire other than true racing slicks. It is about 1 second/lap faster than Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, which in turn is about 1 second/lap faster than Pirelli Corsa at Shanghai F1 track.

    R3S05 supposed to have improved shoulder construction, so I'm looking forward to running it in the 2006 race season.

    We did find that factory recommended pressure is too high to get the fastest lap time out of these tires.
     
  4. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #4 enjoythemusic, Feb 27, 2006
    Rob,

    Many thanks. So 8 cycles and they are done. Hmmm... this is going to be a VERY expensive track year for me.

    Just got off the phone with Kinesis and he also suggested Mich Pilot Cup. i know a few Fcars guys seem to know these and they rate well... but i think the Hoosier may be a bit better (but i am clueless to REAL WORLD here).

    Anyone else with advice. MANY thanks Rob, will keep it in mind for sure!
     
  5. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #5 enjoythemusic, Feb 27, 2006
    EXCELLENT info! Question, the single second difference for me is not a deal breaker, but due to financial constraints... did the Pilot Cup outlast the Hoosier or ???
     
  6. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    #6 rob lay, Feb 27, 2006
    If you want tread life, I would recommend the Toyo's shaved to about 3-4/32's. You can run full tread for rain. They last much longer than Hoosiers. Fast and long life don't go together. :) For just track days I don't think you would worry about that 1 second per lap between Hoosiers and Toyos. They're cheaper per tire too.
     
  7. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #7 enjoythemusic, Feb 27, 2006
    Thanks! Am just trying to figure out my dry and wet tire arrangement for 2006. Have the PS2 on the Kinesis 17's, but i have a set of 16-inch rims and am also debating getting new rims or... Oh the possibilies. If i had bucketloads of funds... but i drive a lowly 308 so you know where i am at :(
     
  8. rob lay

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    #8 rob lay, Feb 27, 2006
    I just looked at R tire prices today. Hoosiers are about the most expensive. I'm paying $220 for my 245/35-17's, but Toyo's in that same size are only $160.
     
  9. budman

    budman Karting

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    #9 budman, Feb 27, 2006
    I just bought some Toyo RA 1's for my 360 track days for the reasons listed above. Does anyone know their approx reccomended hot tire pressue Thanks Buddy
     
  10. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

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    #10 cwwhk, Feb 28, 2006
    Yes, Pilot Sport Cup will out last Hoosiers, but not by that much. If cost takes priority over all out speed, then Hoosier, Michelin, Pirelli are not the way to go.
     
  11. stephens

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    #11 stephens, Feb 28, 2006
    Hoosiers recommended tyre pressure is based on liability issues dealing with failure on heavier cars run at too low pressures, too long.
    On my 1800kg, at the time (with fuel and driver) 550, the Hooser was over a second faster running at 38psi hot over the recommended 45psi, which is just too much, confirmed by pressure stability and pyro's across the tyres, along with lap times. The other thing to note is because of their extremely stiff sidewall compared to most R specs, comparatively you don't need to run as much camber.
    Hoosier is about 1 sec faster green, then falls off fairly slowly compared to Corsa's and Pirelli slicks. The Michelin Sport Cup is not even in the same league, having extensive experience with PS2, Corsa, Cup and Hoosier's.
    I have been running slicks recently, but due to my experience with the way Pirelli's slicks go off too quickly, more so than the Corsa (seems to be a Pirelli trait) and difficulty in getting the right sizes in Michelin and Dunlop slicks, I am closely considering going back to the Hoosier. They're not as good as the Pirelli slick green, but after half a dozen track day sessions, I think they're virtually equal.
     
  12. stephens

    stephens F1 Rookie
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    #12 stephens, Feb 28, 2006
    Rob, for that pressure increase on such a relatively light car, how much camber are you running? It doesn't sound right, that's significantly more than I saw on the 550. Also as per my previous post, ignore the Hoosier engineers, you'll go much faster and the tyres will last longer too, grip wise, not wear, IMO. When I first tried them I used their recommended pressures until Aircon, who had been using Hoosiers on his 355CH for a few years, convinced me to lower the pressures.
     
  13. ferrarifixer

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    #13 ferrarifixer, Feb 28, 2006
    Ha ha, you should try using some new stock, and not 4 year old crap left over.

    Get the date codes from Pirelli, not the wholesaler.
     
  14. stephens

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    #14 stephens, Feb 28, 2006
    Why doesn't that surprise me, is there any other source appart from Rod?
     
  15. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #15 ferrarifixer, Feb 28, 2006
    No, just use Dunlop or Michelin

    Pirelli slicks in Oz is a dead market right now, but I hope someone can revive it.

    Remember that Pirelli need much more camber than Dunlop or Michelin, to get the best from them.

    Hoosier seem to be an awesome tyre, and perfect for club/track day use.
     
  16. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #16 enjoythemusic, Feb 28, 2006
    Many thanks. So it appears my suspicions were perhaps right that the Hoosier is the way to go.


    PS Guys: Funds are limited because i need to be careful how to spend them. Sorry and all, wish i had Enzo funds, yet the 308 here aint that bad after mods... but no Enzo. Could get another set of Kinesis K27, but those are $3.5k and THOSE funds could go into rubber. So my thinking is:

    For WET TRACK and daily beater driving: Buy a set of 17x8 Ronal rims ($700 but adds 5 lbs per corner) and migrate over the current Mich PS2 to them.

    For DRY (and lightly damp) TRACK ONLY use the Kinesis K27 and Hoosier tires.

    i would save over $2k doing this (versus buying another set of K27 rims) and invest the $2k into rubber.

    Hope this makes sense and i really appreciate your thoughts/advice/experience. Have many track days and want to take advantage of now having an open trailer and way to cart around tools/equip/etc. As many of you know, the suspension is modded so that part is 'done' per se. The classification am running in means no engine/tranny mods and since the suspension is very much adjustable, am now trying to sort out the best rubber.

    Hope this makes sense. If i am going wrong somewhere i am all ears as you guys have VASTLY more experience. ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated.
     
  17. rob lay

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    #17 rob lay, Feb 28, 2006
    Yes, it was a 10 psi rise. Camber only about -1. Only running a side aspect of 35 on racing wheels, so that contributes to the pressure up. RX8 is 3,120 lbs right now with me in it, so not all that light.

    Toyo's I recommend really low pressures, but that was for racing. I started at 25-28 and would hit 33-35 hot. Those low pressure would wear the corners pretty good. When you get that purple shine from the oils separating out from the rubber you know that part of the tire is shot, we still continued to run them until corded though. :D
     
  18. stephens

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    #18 stephens, Feb 28, 2006
    Aren't you allowed to run more than 1 degree of camber? The Hoosier will need at least 2 and prefers 3. You guys must be killing your tyres, I'm assuming it is part of the series regulations.
     
  19. rob lay

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    #19 rob lay, Feb 28, 2006
    We can't use camber plates or bend anything, just have to get camber from stock adjustments.
     
  20. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #20 enjoythemusic, Feb 28, 2006
    That's a bummer Rob. In the series i am running, COM Sport Car Club they have allowed me to run SSGT, i have some leeway.

    FYI: The car kinda belongs in STGT class but that includes BMW M3, 2001+, M5 V8, Corvette ZR1, Dodge Viper ACR, Ferrari F40, F50, 328 and 348 Challenge, etc. And you can easily see a lowly 308 aint stand a snowball's chance in H$LL against those cars.

    Rob, what org/class u running this year?
     
  21. rob lay

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    #21 rob lay, Feb 28, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Focusing on RX8 in SCCA Touring 3, will be going to Runoffs for first time ever in October.

    A few races with NASA in the Challenge for their new Grand Production Challenge http://www.nasatx.com/GPC.htm

    November I will do the SCCA 6 hour enduro again in a Spec RX7.
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  22. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #22 enjoythemusic, Feb 28, 2006
    6 staright hours. HOLY SMOKES! Most impressive!
     
  23. rob lay

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    #23 rob lay, Feb 28, 2006
    Not really, 3 drivers. However, I've done up to the 2 hour limit the past two years. Those 12A's can race that far on just 13 gallons. You get in the zone, pretty cool.
     
  24. ProCoach

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    #24 ProCoach, Mar 1, 2006
    Looking back over this thread, it appears Steve was asking about the Michelin PS2's versus the Hoosier R compound tire. There were numerous responses detailing the difference between the Michelin Pilot Sport CUP versus the Hoosiers, but I don't think people were catching that Steve was talking about a very good street tire (the PS2) and the track-oriented Michelin (the Sport Cup). It's just that comparing a high performance street tire (the S-03, PS2, Azenis) to the R-compound tire (RA-1, R3S05, Tech-R) is like comparing apples to oranges.

    Steve, you will notice a significant improvement in dry grip from the PS2 to to the Pilot Sport cup and another magnitude beyond with the Hoosier 05's.
    Good luck and have fun!

    -Peter (tire tester for Grassroots Motorsports and Classic Motorsports, for vintage tires! <grin>)
     
  25. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #25 enjoythemusic, Mar 1, 2006
    Peter, how do i land a cool job like that?

    (Said in good humor) Tell you what, to save you all that hard work i will be very unselfish and just send me various R-Compound tires and i will personally test them for you, though allow you to get all the credit :)

    Many thanks. When the PS2 are up to temp they really grab well on the track. Admit to being relatively new to all this and trying to gauge things and have a detailed track log so i can reference back to each and every track day (and, at times, each track session within the day and what changes worked and did not work).

    During a cold (45F), constat slow rain wet track day the PS2 were like stone. Still, the car faired quite well as other guys at the event were all complaining about not being able to get good grip. My car with PS2 appeared to have better grip than most others, but the grip was a touch-and-go situation when trying to get the very last bits of performance out of them.

    Truly appreciate your experience (color me jealous too!) So you are saying the Hoosier are THE way to go. Will probably buy them from TireRack and have TireRack heat cycle them for me. Any other advice you can provide a Hoosier newbie such as myself? Will call my mechanic and see what camber in we are going to dial in (-3 degrees perhaps?). ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated.
     
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