Anyone with information on the current 94s on the market?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Auraraptor, Dec 24, 2017.

  1. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Do that when your existing shaft breaks ... I bet it will never happen ... :D
     
  2. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    That's correct Romano, when you see the old diff that I still keep at home you will hardly find a crack .... till I lift it ... :D

    On the other hand there were at least three faulty diff found in my neighbourhood of TR friends ...

    Imo it depends on the real gb skills of the mechanic ... (are there any left ?)
     
  3. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

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    Agreed. But with the 94+/M diff which is forged, the you said the break was under the bearing, so no way to inspect that without taking the diff apart? Only the welded old style diffs seem worthwhile inspecting with a boroscope - is that right?
     
  4. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Correct ...
     
  5. TODDZTR

    TODDZTR Karting

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    So if I were to buy a 94 with the updated diff from the factory, people are still changing them out for peace of mind or because they too have been catastrophic? Is this still a bargaining point when buying a 94+?

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  6. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior
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    I bought a 92 car about 15 years ago, and upgraded the diff from Paul Newan and quill shaft (Robert Hayden, uzz32soarer) around 2010. I paid an additional £6k or so during a major service for the parts & labour for the upgrade.

    I would characterise the £6k as an insurance policy against a £15k+ spend if you hit a landmine. I know people who have had issues, but only due the weld breaking on the old style carriers, not heard of the newer OEM carrier catastrophically failing.

    My service shop in Italy maintains around 90 TR/Ms, and say that they have never seen one let go in 20 years. So gives you an idea of the frequency of failure.

    Unless you want the 94 for a particular reason (e.g. ABS etc), if you want peace of mind, buying an earlier car and upgrading may be a good option. The last I looked the premium for 94 cars was more than the cost of the upgrade if carried out during a major.

    Looking back, Newman's carrier was a very good option, and of exceptional quality. There's certainly no need to replace the whole diff. The jury is out on the need for the quill shaft.
     
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  8. TODDZTR

    TODDZTR Karting

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    Very interesting stats! When reading the threads here, sometimes it makes me think it is a wide spread problem. I was looking at a 94 for the rarity of that years production. Plus the age old timing belt service interval.

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  9. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    So if I understand correctly, some 94s have a partially upgraded differential. Does anyone know the SN cut off for when that occurred in the MY94 production run? Thank you
     
  10. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Rookie

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    when you use robert hayden`s ( uzz32soarer ) shaft then your "fuse shaft" is the main shaft. so put in a better/ stronger main shaft and lay shaft with crown. so I did
    question is what will break next???
     
  11. TODDZTR

    TODDZTR Karting

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    Forgive my ignorance, but I don't really understand what you are saying.

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  12. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Rookie

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    the original shaft is like a fuse in an electrical system. it will break when you hardly accelerate and try to shift very fast ( but only in 1st and may be also in 2nd gear ). the shaft itself turned then during acceleration from one end to the other up to 180 °, so a half circle. when you then push the clutch pedal the shaft jumps back to the normal position and more, like a spring. and then the shaft will break.
    rob haydens shaft can turn up to 270 ° ( so 3/4 of a circle ), jump back, even overjump and nothing happens. but because of this now the main shaft also get under this "spring-power" and could break - have one broken at home - there where the swifel shaft is connected with the main shaft
    so I would say: never only change the swifel shaft, also replace the main shaft ( but of course not the weak original material )
    it is not really necessary to replace also the lay shaft and the crown if you not have additional power like mine has


    not really. you also may see nothing and when you take it apart you see it is broken
     
  13. TODDZTR

    TODDZTR Karting

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    Any idea what the stats are of this breaking? I know the carrier is weak, but in 92 and forward apparently there were recalls updating the carriers and various other drive train parts over the model years. Maybe instead of a 94 TR, I should get a early 90's Diablo? They seem to have better luck with drive train parts and no pesky belt changes? I'd love to put a prancing horse in my garage, but the Diablo (from my research) seem to have less issues? Thoughts...

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  15. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Rookie

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    sorry:
    before I did not mean swifel shaft, I mean quill shaft
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Rookie

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    no thoughts because no experience with diablo
    but where is our "mr. freeze miami vice" shamile?
    he for sure could tell you. you may message him
     
  17. TODDZTR

    TODDZTR Karting

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    Yes! Thanks. That's a name I never thought to message.

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  18. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

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    Giving all the excited discussion over many years, the fact that no one has posted a photo showing a broken 94+/M carrier which has catastrophically failed (vs the welded one where there are stories) would suggest there is no widespread issue with the newer OEM carriers. I would only do the upgrade on the earlier cars unless you see some real evidence here.

    I think some people who have suffered a failure are not surprisingly in the "everything will fail camp", others are probably in the businesses of making and repairing these kind of things, and might benefit from all this talk. Only when people start buying Diablos instead, crying wolf, becomes a problem - no more business. Call me cynical.
     
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  19. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Rookie

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    you are cynical :)
     
  20. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Indeed Romano .... some would even write down other words ...
     
  21. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Yes it is.

    If the oem diff breaks you may face a loss of more than K$20 ... it is a bargain point imo.

    So it is a sales point if you can show that an upgraded diff is installed (with genuine documentation). As is happening now too.
     
  22. TODDZTR

    TODDZTR Karting

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    Use the Google force, I imagine it will find what your looking for!

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  23. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    If it was that easy I wouldn't have asked....unfortunately no one seems to know for certain without looking at the gearbox number directly. Estimates put it around SN 96100-97200 but again, no definative/consistant number. I was curious if those far more knowledgeable had more information then a ~1100 SN range.

    As far as gearbox numbers go (quoted from earlier thread): 512 with gearbox number 1370 or later will have the forged differential housing. All after gearbox number 1513 will have the forged housing plus the later ring and pinion gear with locating dowels & heavier bolts.
     
  24. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Correct. But it is certainly not a law !

    We have seen gb's with "wrong" diff in it plenty of times. These replacements came in these gb's after repairing ... broken diffs ....

    In my 512TR we found a (broken) Testarossa diff ... so after the oem first diff broke, they put in a Testarossa diff ... that also broke ...

    Now is a Forza upgraded diff installed with life-long guarantee ....

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  25. TODDZTR

    TODDZTR Karting

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    Nice piece of engineering!

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  26. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Indeed ! I think you can have it now in USA via Ricambi too ...

    See it as an investment imo :D
     
  27. TODDZTR

    TODDZTR Karting

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    Being a Canadian, I'd support Mr Newman

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