355 - Anyone's stock manifolds fail twice? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

355 Anyone's stock manifolds fail twice?

Discussion in '348/355' started by kenneyd, Feb 13, 2022.

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  1. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I used Scud as an example because standard 360 and F430 have built-in cats so it’s not an apples to apples comparison. Scud doesn’t have built-in cats and were introduced in 08. I would assume by the time Scud and 355 revised header have similar build quality.
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    What years are they?
     
  3. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Thats about right but the new ones still failed. It was very dependent on how hard the car was driven.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Sometime after the 360 was in production. Your emission warranty was not over in 2000. Emission warranty is what they were being covered under and that was either 5/50 or 7/70.
     
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  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Air rails were a different design on 2.7 cars and those started cracking almost right away at the base of the tube. At first Ferrari was just replacing the manifold but it became so rampant they limited it to R&R and welding and they redesigned the the tube shapes. As the cars got a little older is when we started to have burned out tubes.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Air rails were a different design on 2.7 cars and those started cracking almost right away at the base of the tube. At first Ferrari was just replacing the manifold but it became so rampant they limited it to R&R and welding and they redesigned the the tube shapes. As the cars got a little older is when we started to have burned out tubes.
     
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  7. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3
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    Has anyone seen any real-world data on performance improvements on the factory design? I'm not talking about Fabspeed dyno graphs. Something credible. In other words if one was to have a set of headers fabbed, are there any performance gains to be had for a street car in terms of primary ID or collector design?
     
  8. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    They are both early 95 cars. Both with 30k mi. My nero 355 still has the original headers, but there is a high chance they are bad. Part of the reason I stopped driving the car.

    My Rosso 355 had it's original headers changed out 18k mi in 2005. So I'm assuming it now has the "updated" headers, which now has 12k mi on them. The air rails are straight, not curved (like the ones on my Nero 355). They look like these.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/173319808005?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=173319808005&targetid=1262749490782&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9031217&poi=&campaignid=15428034462&mkgroupid=133947154481&rlsatarget=pla-1262749490782&abcId=9300763&merchantid=6358164&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmKiQBhClARIsAKtSj-nzl8seJM54aKYXyy04s2qMrS_axZ1SDDS9unTyi--oI8M9kI1nkEQaAi1mEALw_wcB
     
  9. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Keep in mind the previous owner purchased new OE headers in 2005 for $6k. Why would one buy OE headers, which are questionable for $6k, when you can have Tubi headers for $4k?
     
  10. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula 3

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    Well if johnK's failed, that sets the bar pretty low lol.



    Anyway, back in 2020 i listed my car for sale for a few weeks, and a few people gave me a hard time about the stock manifolds. Oher than for resale, I have no desire to replace my perfectly fine OEM manifolds with ones that may change they sound etc, especially if there is no performance gain.
    No one could ever accuse me of driving like miss daisy lol. Its possible my hyperflo cats could be helping them survive the last 25k miles with no issues.
     
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  11. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I got 30k out of mine ;)
     
  12. johnk...

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    At those the ones changed out, so really only 12k miles (Rosso car), or the ones that are "probably bad" on your nero. :)


    Remember, I've only put 11k miles on my car. Who knows how it was driven before me.

    Anyway, mine were the early 2.7 type and the leak is somewhere internal in the primary for cyl 3 or 4. not at the air injection tube weld.
     
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  13. Zamboniman308

    Zamboniman308 Formula Junior

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    Mine had at least 1 replaced around 7000 miles 2 years after original delivery. I believe the other was replaced at some point but too lazy/busy to dig through the records. 40 some thousand miles later still OK.. but it's on my mind
     
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  14. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    You have a point.

    My Nero car has 30k mi on the headers and they are most likely bad or getting there.

    My Rosso car was mostly driven by previous owners. Original headers failed at 18k mi. New OE headers replaced in 2005. Car now has 30k mi, so the math works out to 12k mi so far on the new headers. They're definitely still good. For how much longer, who knows?

    Exhaust setup is identical on both cars, however, Rosso car had steel guides put in. Stock intakes, stock headers, stock Y-pipe, straight pipes, and an after-market muffler. My Rosso car feels noticeably more powerful than my Nero car. Not by alot, but noticeable enough to me. That is either due to fresh guides put in as I think my Nero car might have a guide issue OR the OE headers on my Nero 355 has warped to the point some power is lost.

    So the question remains... even if your headers are not leaking and seem fine, are they warped? If they are warped, are you losing some power? Having seen numerous pics of original 355 headers opened up, I think there's a 90% chance they are at least warped. I've never seen them look anything remotely close to good.
     
  15. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

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    Has anyone seen a performance issues with their cars from the exhaust leaks meaning that if the leak is before the O2 sensors making the car run richer then need at times

    I know having the leak noises (Ticking sound) would make me nuts if heard but I would think there would be a Drive ability issue from the leaks or a rough idle


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  16. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Yep. Before I replace my cracked 1-4 header I would occasionally see the 1-4 bank CEL flash on for a few seconds then go off. Always a lambda control code. (2.7 car) No issues since I replaced headers.
     
  17. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

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  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #43 Rifledriver, Feb 17, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2022
    When they are really bad it will so effect the extraction qualities it will sound and run like a seven cylinder. When we first started having the trouble I would guess all of us were fooled what the problem was because they ran so bad. There was no noticeable effect on O2 sensor operation. Ferrari was having us run all sorts of tests on oscilloscopes and the SD1 so it could be diagnosed and proven for warranty reasons but no electronic diagnostic equipment detection method was found.
     
  19. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

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    Ok so Ferrari basically want to see the secondary spark and sensor inputs to see if it would be warranted I guess and after all that would replace the manifolds but you didn’t see anything really out of the ordinary when testing

    And is smoke testing part of their diagnosis

    Not that it matters my car is far from warranty now but I do try to stay on top of things so I can enjoy the car

    I have asked on another tread about aftermarket wide band O2 sensor kits and got some good feed back and just wondering if this problem would show up before it gets to a point where the car doesn’t run right

    I’d like to Find problems before they get to be and costly lol

    Thanks


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  20. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Bottom pic here is an example of after-market SECA header for 2.7. How do I know? Because I bought it :). Rare. No longer in production.
     
  21. johnk...

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  22. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    I studied this back in 2007 running a huge number of CFD runs and wrote a 40 page article on my findings.

    There may be as much as 10HP to be gained with exotic header design, On the other hand
    There may be as much as 40HP lurking in the intakes and Helmholtz resonators.
    All without touching anything inside the engine or the air path into the resonators.
     
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  23. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3
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    How do you get 120+ hp/liter with stock redline and internals and no special modern trickery like variable cam timing?
     
  24. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    You make more air flow through the engine !!

    There is about 8 HP in the shape of the velocity stacks {length, taper, bell configuration, material, ...}
    All the rest is in the Resonators.
    {There was about 4HP in the air filters, but the above data was with the filters in place.}

    {{According to the CFD simulations}}
     
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