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Appreciation/Depreciation and Advice?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by pclever1, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. pclever1

    pclever1 Rookie

    Apr 30, 2018
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    Peter Cleverdon
    Hey everyone, I am thinking about purchasing a Ferrari in the next few years and I was wondering if you would give me some input on the most cost effective ways of owning some of these cars.

    I would love to be able to own a car for about 2 years and put roughly 4,000 miles on it per year and maintain as much of my investment as possible. The two main routs I have been considering are:
    • Buy a current model new from the factory (wait 6 months+) then repeat every few years
    • Buy a used car for a "good deal" then trade it every few years

    From what I have seen in the past some people are able to buy a new model from the factory and then sell it for more than they purchased it for and that amazes me. Also with the price of maintenance buying used cars with higher mileage can dramatically affect your net financial loss.

    Can anyone please explain their understanding of the appreciation and depreciation factors of these cars and possibly give me some recommendations on how to get started? (also I am mostly interested in the mainstream newer models like the 488GTB and the F12)

    Thanks!!!
     
  2. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Rookie
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    Jul 22, 2006
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    There is no appreciation whatsoever if you buy an f12 or 488 just losses. I bought an aventador and lost $200k in 2 years and said never again. If you want to buy cars and not lose your ass you need to buy cars near the bottom of their depreciation that are limited production and will appreciate. I now have an slr McLaren and a Ferrari 575. I am fairly certain that I can at worst break even owning them.
     
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  3. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Problem is these are cars, they are meant to be driven, not looked at as an investment. I have lost a ton of money on cars in the last few months I added another 30K to that number. That was with just one car now imagine how much I've lost on all 466 I have owned. Granted I am a bit unique (and bizarre even in this crowd) and I have been fortunate to be in a situation that the losses mean nothing to me. Whenever someone asked me for advise and they see cars in the way you are looking at them. I tell them to go buy something else, no offence meant, but the way I see it no one needs a car that cost over 250k. There is no practical reason to own a car like that, so it better move you, make you want to drive it, not be worried that something might happen that will hurt your investment in the car. Not sure if this is still the case but it used to be that you could not just walk into a Ferrari dealer and say I want to order a 488. There is a waiting list and they want you to buy a few used cars first. Perhaps things have changed, but if I were you, first thing I'd do is think about the reasons you want a Ferrari in the first place. If they all have to do with what it will be worth, well my advise is think about another brand. Maybe if you had started your posting with I love the way the 488 takes a curve or the way the power comes on in the V12, I may have responded differently.
     
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  4. A348W

    A348W Formula Junior

    Jun 28, 2017
    853
    North Wiltshire, UK
    #4 A348W, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
    Good luck...you'll need it!

    As said above, all you can do is look to minimise losses, if you are lucky you will walk out even, if you are blessed you might make money. I know people who have made money on their cars but its either pure dumb luck, invite only purchase or being at the very front of the order list for a new model. The later two you are not in.

    If your that worried about loosing money, buy at what looks like the bottom of the depreciation curve and hope your were close! But that will define the car you buy, e.g. probably F430/599 territory not F12/488. And cost for maintenance bills!

    Too be honest there is so much yack about depreciation etc etc. on this site its a bit wearisome. As with any car purchase, figure out your budget, test drive some cars and buy the one you like the most. First and foremost these are cars, they want/need/should be driven. If you are looking for an investment...I know a Nigerian Prince....!

    As with any car, usual rules apply, newer it is the more it will depreciate (limited editions excluded), only difference with F cars is there is an upward swing...at sometime in the future at a point that is anybody's guess, maybe!!
     
  5. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    5,284
    I would pick up a 360 Modena or Spider, if you enjoy using the manual box.Or if you dont care then the F1 is even cheaper.Or for a bit more a F430 which are now coming close to bottoming out.

    Your downside will be quite limited now, enjoy for a few years. By then the 488/F12 will be quite a lot lower if you still want to scratch that itch.
     
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  6. thorn

    thorn Formula 3
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    Aug 7, 2012
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    Erm... what? Why would I pay more for your 2 yr old, 8K mile 488 than I could buy new from a dealer?
     
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  7. energy88

    energy88 F1 Veteran
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    Lease it. That way you know exactly how much you are going to lose going in.

    You might want to look into Swap-A-Lease and other such transfer firms where you might take over an existing lease. This would get around a waiting list from a dealer.
     
  8. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Everyone on earth wants a car that you can buy for $250 and sell for $250+ or find the "good deal" and then sell later with no loss or a profit. Who wouldn't?

    You get away with it with a new Ferrari or other exotic that has just come out that everyone wants in a roaring economy. There's a 2 year wait time to buy one new so people would rather spend over MSRP to own it now. So you either have to A) get on the list to buy it new which usually means a relationship with the dealer which means you've bought each new Ferrari to come out in the past
    -or-
    B) You buy one of the new models being sold over MSRP and hope that after the 2 years people still want it at the price you've paid (good luck with that).

    Or you can get lucky and buy a model at the bottom of the depreciation curve and then ride it up like I did with my stick 360.
    The real question above is WHY do you want the car? If its a "I want to own it for 2 years to scratch the itch and then sell it without loosing any money".. everyone wants that. Get on a list for a new model or limited edition model and give it a whirl. I suspect that in most cases you loose money. Either with depreciation or with repairs. I don't understand why you don't get a cheaper model like a 430, enjoy it and then sell it for minimal loss....
     
  9. Island Time

    Island Time F1 Veteran
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    #9 Island Time, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018
    Whatever it is you're doing to buy the car in the first place is where the dough is made. Play time is all about minimizing losses.

    I've done that by buying low mileage stuff at the bottom of it's depreciation. Maintenance is less of a concern that way. Then put your 10 or 15k miles on it and still sell it as a low mileage car.

    There's no free lunch when making your mind up to buy a specific toy.
     
  10. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Rookie
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    Jul 22, 2006
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    to be fair you can do this with certain cars, I paid $189k for my SLR Mclaren 2.5 years ago, its probably $250ish now if I wanted to sell it. A new 488/F12 is not the car, its mass produced, modern car. I think in the F car world if you want an affordable modern car ie $200k or less you can drive and see appreciation or limit depreciation you need one of the following: challenge stradale, 430 stick, 360 stick, 575, 550 maranello. That's about it in terms of modern cars, I still see the scuderia and speciale dipping and everything else is mass produced and doubtful to retain value.
     
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  11. The 512tr was a great deal but seems to have passed now.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  12. blackbolt22

    blackbolt22 F1 Veteran
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    Sep 25, 2007
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    Unless you buy a 16M, Speciale, F40, F50 etc you will lose money.

    My advice is not to worry about depreciation. If so, you will worry about miles, parking, rock chips etc etc during ownership. Then you have to ask why bother owning one if you can't drive your car without worry. It's just a car, a nice one but just a car.

    Buy one that is mostly depreciated as mentioned above. Drive the hell out of it. It will be worth what it's worth when you're done. Then get another one.
     
  13. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Rookie
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    Jul 22, 2006
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    I paid $104k for a red/tan low mile 575 last november, Im fairly certain I wont lose money on it over a 5 year period. You dont have to spend $350k on a 16m, you just have to find something rare. A stick 430 is not that much more than my 575 and still a great value, same with a 550 maranello or a stick 360. The cars you posted are amazing but are a totally different price point.
     
  14. Agreed. The rule of thumb would be to buy something at the bottom of its depreciation to either make money or not lose much.
    I mean if you dont want to lose too much a 360 f1 with low miles will cost u say 80k and 5 years from now u may still get 60-80k put of it.
    Now get a gated 360 and it’s highly unlikely u lose anything at all rather appreciate.

    Buy a brand new 488 pista u may lose 200k in 5 years, same with the lusso.


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  15. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    here is my advice:

    buy a 430, use it as you described, maintain it, and sell it if you like.

    it will cost you $20k for the pleasure.

    that car is a $100k car every day. you buy it at 110 k and sell it at 90k.
     
  16. LightGuy

    LightGuy Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 4, 2004
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    You can break even or better on these cars if you get on the Special car list.
    Any Ferrari hypercar like the 288 GTO up to the LaFerrari.
    The Special editions like the 599 GTO or F12 TDF come close.
    A 488 Pista will put money in your pocket if you sell at the right time.( Like when your secondary sales agreement with Ferrari lapses).

    All the rest of us have to wait for depreciation over time then appreciation to do its thing.
     
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  17. AceMaster

    AceMaster Two Time F1 World Champ

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    If you want something that you can sell for more than you paid for, then get into real estate instead of Ferrari ownership.
     
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  18. energy88

    energy88 F1 Veteran
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  19. wrs

    wrs F1 Rookie
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    Ferrari is a public company, it doesn't make cars for collectors anymore. Wait and see.
     
  20. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
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    Phill J

    Really? :confused:

    I bought my 348 TS 3 years ago, ran it for two years and then sold it last year.

    At the price I sold it for, after taking away everything I ever paid to own and run the car for those two years (servicing, insurance, secure parking, fuel, folding soft top targa panel, cleaning accessories , etc., etc.), I came out £7K (@ $9.5K) in profit.

    The car wasn't bought to make money on, it was bought to drive and enjoy (which I did, at every chance I got! :) ), and when the time came to sell it, I simply got lucky with how the Ferrari market had gone, but if you watch the various Ferrari markets carefully, and are prepared to wait (sometimes years/decades!), it is possible to make money on (older) Ferrari's.

    I would say though that it's the wrong reason to buy one, and could backfire spectacularly all too easily!
     
  21. toggie

    toggie F1 World Champ
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    Nov 30, 2003
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    A more likely strategy for making money on a Ferrari is to buy a vintage or classic one.
    Very few Ferraris were made in the 1950's or 1960's.
    That rarity is one of the things that drives up the prices over the years.

    Be forewarned that the vintage Ferrari market runs in boom/bust cycles, but for the most part, the values go up.

    For example, twenty years ago I was thinking of doing this and I researched several vintage models.
    The one I liked the best was the "250 GT TdF" cars.
    Not many of them made (77 of them, I think) and most of them had a racing history.
    Twenty years ago they were "high priced" at around $800k.
    I figured that they would likely at least hold their value so I day-dreamed about buying one. I never did.
    Now, those cars are selling for around $9M which is a 10x price increase.

    So, if I were to pick a car that reminds me of this situation today it would be the 330 GTC.
    Not many made (598 of them, I think) and they are a lovely car.
    I think they sell for around $600k these days.
    I have the same feeling about them - that is, they are likely to at least hold their values over the next 10 years.
    Wouldn't it be something if they some day sell for $6M?

    Food for thought.
     
  22. msark

    msark Karting

    Feb 18, 2017
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    Southern California
    Won't the sales tax and registration tilt the proposition?
     
  23. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Vegas baby
    Your mistake is using the word "investment". They are not. They are "expenses"

    If you are trying to minimize your loss, think of this.

    All of your "plans" go out the window with one idiot in a 1983 Honda smashes into you. In an instant you from either the insurance company or in diminished value.

    That being said---

    Buying new has some advantages. For one, the warranty and maintenance are paid for. But there's a risk that in 2 years it could depreciate the most depending on the model and where in the life cycle you buy it. There is one other disadvantage: The wait. You could wait YEARS in some cases.

    Buying used has the advantage of taking advantage of someone else's depreciation and you can get it today if you find the right car. But a blown transmission and you're out $15-20K. If you buy the extended warranty, you're out another $6 or so grand a year. And buying used means you never have the very latest either in model or performance as they keep upgrading them in their lifecycle.

    So, what is the answer?

    Buy what you like and what you can afford in a WORSE CASE scenario. You don't buy these every day. Get something you want and can afford and forget what it might or might no depreciate. As soon as you make plan, fate makes it go out the window. Then where are you?
     
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  24. mchas

    mchas F1 Rookie
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    I think people have become too used to seeing prices go nowhere but up the last 5-7 years. I remember very well 10 years ago when that definitely wasn’t the case. The economy was going down quickly and Ferrari’s were not immune. Don’t forget that can happen again at any time.
     
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  25. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
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    Dec 11, 2001
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    Newbies always think they are going to make money on Ferraris.

    First off... You aren't buying a new one from a dealer unless you've A) greased someone, B) bought several POS models that they can't flog (at full retail of course), or C) you've developed a 'relationship' (ie.... sucked up to some arrogant sales person (see A to shorten this process)

    Because they pump them out now, if you manage to buy a newer one (excluding the specials and limited cars because you aren't getting one)...... you WILL lose money unless you keep it a long time... and then it's a crap shoot. I doubt that the station wagon will appreciate.

    As said previously, if you want to minimize losses, get a car that's a few generations back that's already depreciated. You will have fun and put a smile on your face, with minimal wallet denting.

    Remember, at the end of the day, these aren't investments. It's a passion and a hobby. Unless you are a member of the lucky sperm club or make stupid money and losses mean nothing, you will be looking at the depreciated models..... if you are smart.
     
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