Architect?

my dad is an architect, works non-stop, pretty "lucrative" yet doesnt have any time to spend the money/relax. only go into it if it is truly ALL you want to do with your life, time and time again i see people go into his office for the "license training phase" and quit right away(in texas you do 4 years of school then 2 years working b4 you can even take the test for the license, even at that point most dont bother as there is too many rules and regulations), however on the other side my dad is obsessed with architecture, he builds mainly custom homes and remodels. and he couldnt be more happy than doing what he is doing, regardless of the long hours. the main thing i would say is make sure you are truly dedicated to it 100% b4 making the plunge into architecture. i must admit also i have scared away quite a few people from architecture after telling them about my dad and them seeing the amount of work he does first hand, no joke look up louis kahn, my dads life pretty much the same as his (minus the seperate families, i think... ha)

 

I've numbered your questions and will try to answer from my own experience.

1. My guess is automotive design, both at the undergraduate level and job entry level.

2. Fun is when you're on the design end of things and don't have to be so much concerned with infinite detail. Architecture entails a large amount of other factors besides just designing cool buildings; automotive design obviously does as well.

If you rose to be head of a large corporate studio or specialized department in the automotive area, I'd guess it would probably be a lot of fun.

3. Architecture can pay very well if you are willing to work very hard, and can perhaps get into some development and design/build partnerships or rise to partner in a large firm. Starting out as a graduate with a master's degree, at a large firm you could expect to make what a low-end starting engineer's or attorney's salary would be...no more than $50K.

A guess: Auto design probably pays graduate-engineer-level salaries to start, with the benefits only very large companies can provide.

4. Totally subjective...talk to those in them.

Architecture was a good career for me, but after 30+ years I was very tired and when the opp came to leave, I left.

5. My still-working architect friends & acquaintances do 60-hour plus weeks...these are guys in their early 50's to early 60's, both in small practices and with large firms. All are at the top of their game and make very good money, but their families hardly see them.

 

You're welcome.

I think you should investigate the Auto Design option thoroughly.

Architecture can end up being a catch-all for people who are "creative", yet want a regular career. The choice to go this direction is often reinforced by parents who have romantic notions of what its all about, and are just glad their artistic kid wants to do something that is in a traditional profession, with some prestige attached, and that will put them on their own financially.

The tech revolution has given creatively-inclined college-age people a large array of options that were undreamed of 35 years ago, when I made the decision to finish college with an architectural degree.

You have to be like sethmac86's dad and have a calling for architecture to be truly happy with it. I worked for a couple of architects like him postgrad and have similar friends; I valued other things and early-on made the choice for architecture to be a living, not a lifestyle.

No regrets here 35 yrs later; I worked on some great projects, did well financially...except during the 1985-90 "depression" we had in Texas..., had a solid reputation and niche, and surprised and shocked peers and clients when I announced I was leaving the profession at age 54. They couldn't believe I was flat-out leaving something I was so good at. But I could have been good at a lot of things, made more money doing them, and still had time to express my creative side.

You're at a point where the decisions you make will govern your life for many years; take your time and choose carefully, even if it delays you a year in graduating. You're going to be working hard at something for a long time.

 

I really wanted to pursue automotive design when I was in high school, I still wish I had. I did some research and found out that there are only 2 schools in the US that offer it as a major. I think for each you had to already have either an engineering degree, or one in design. After learning that and thinking about how many positions there may be available once I finished, I reconsidered.

I decided to get a business degree and graduated about a year ago. I regret not going after something I was truly intereted in, like architecture or engineering. I am now debating on going back to school to follow something I am passionate about.

 

My brother is an architect. He was working out in the Hamptons designing and building houses. His big problem was getting people to pay. Almost 50% of his clients he had to chase after for payment. Some people do not like to part with their money.

He then got into an interesting line of business using autocad as a database to track assets and costs. He works with Fortune 50 companies and such. He is now branching out into data centers and finding it a great market.

cheers

ken

 

FerrariDude- Where there's a will there's a way, my pop's is an architect and I start school this October at IED in Torino for automotive design.


Do what your heart tells you, and it appears it's saying "Automotive design."

 

interesting dilemma you have there...i was in exactly the same position at your age...i ate slept and dreamed cars...drawing and sketching cars was my life...when college finally loomed and i had to make the decision, i chose auto design because architecture seemed far too daunting...it took quite a while to realize how very few people actually get good positions designing cars (unless you consider nameplates and trim designing cars, to say nothing of clay modeling)...i corrected the error and eventually became an architect...best decision i ever made...

 

I too was in the same boat a few years back. Decided on architecture, I didn't think my portfolio was good enough to get into the automotive schools and I thought they were too expensive (that's what student loans are for), also the schools were so far away and there was a decent arch. school close by... looking back I sometimes wish I'd taken my chances at least applied and found out if my portfolio was good enough or not.

In my experince Architecture is NOT lucrative, espeically if you want to work at the "design" frims. I worked for several "starchitect" firms in Los Angeles and made 28K/year (this was like 3 years go mind you...). The most I was offered or heard of ANYONE in LA making right out of school was $42k/year and about the most I've heard of architects making are partners at the largest corporate firms making 150-200k.

Now money isn't everything, and the pay CAN be decent, but the hours tend to be long, and the projects can be stressful, and the whole education and liscencing process is a long one so it'd be good I guess it really varies alot from firm to firm... I guess I picked the wrong ones for my first few jobs and kind of got burnt.

Automotive schools are few and far between, I always wanted to go to Art Center in Pasadena CA it is an undergrad program only and no previous schooling is required. If you graduate from there placement at one of the big design studios is pretty much guranteed. The automotive design headquarters for alot of car manufactueres are in Los Angeles, so many of the designers there are Art Center grads and you will get to meet many of those people while you're in school.

One thing on the plus side for architecutre I suppose is it is relatively easy to go out on your own, as an automotive designer you pretty much need to work for one of the big manufactueres and I imagine in most cases what you're allowed to "design" could be quite limited - everything needs to fit with the brand identity the marketing departments tells you and the beacn counters say you can afford... this is present in all forms of design but as an Architect if you're careful about how you sell youreself you can have a lot of freedom.

Maybe the best thing you could do is find a good firm locally, tell them your situation and see if you can get a job there after school. Learning autocad from a drafting class at school or a commmunity college might not hurt your prospects of getting a job, you'd probably learn a bit more of what the day to day of being an architect is like and what it takes to get buildings built if you did that, but I'm sure there are firms out there that would have something for you to do even if you can't draft.

Also check out http://www.archinect.com do a serach in the discussion, you'll find a lot of thread about this exact subject, it might help it's also a good resource for architecture.

Josh

 

Same dilemma for me about 13 years ago.
I chose architecture and I’m happy with it ( besides the money, about 30k Euro).
I agree with the other posts – funny how similar the thoughts of teenagers are.

Some further thoughts to think about:

In automotive design you are involved in an industrial process. A car is designed by big team. You're responsible for a PART of the car (switches, cloth…). You are an employee.

In architecture you are building „one-offs“. Each building is unique. Usually you are responsible for the whole building. You can start an architecture office and be your own boss.

As a single person your artistic leeway, creative freedom, is bigger in architecture (imo). Even if the house is very small, there are many design-decisions to take and the client will trust in your personal, professional opinion.

A few years ago I was talking to a guy, working for Mercedes-Benz. He was not a designer but he was responsible for the financial package of a new car. So he was informed about each design-decision right from the start – he was responsible for the whole car. So his personal influence on the final design was bigger than the influence of the „switch-designer“.

 

35 years ago I had to make the same decision. What made me choose architecture is that I wanted to make the design decisions. I hate design by committee. So, architecture became my profession and cars my hobby and I do not regret it. I never thought there would be enough money in architecture to drive my dream cars, but what do you know.

I've married another architect and together we have a midsize firm in NYC with medium to large size international projects. We are actually a little too big now, and its hard to downsize, but that is a different story.

Even though we've worked hard and long hours when we ware young, now we work much more efficiently and -in our particular set up- we're both home every evening with our kids and rarely work in the weekends.

It almost made a full circle when we were asked to design the new Spyker headquarters in the Netherlands, but since then Spyker has fallen on hard times, and this might never happen. A nice side effect is that we are being paid in Spykers.

 

Architecture is pretty easy to get into as there are about 100 accredited universities in the U.S. There is a very high dropout rate in college, and very few that graduate ever get their license. The bottom line is that without the license you will not make very much money. To get the license you will need either a 5 year Bachelor of Architecture or a 6 year Master of Architecture degree, then a 3 year internship and then pass the 4 day test. I was fortunate to get my license when I was 25. I am not a fan of long work hours so I rarely (maybe 1 week per year) work more than 40 hours per week. The positive aspect of the profession are that the work is pretty fun, the fees are pretty good, and there always seems to be plenty of work (for the past 15 years or so at least). You make of your career what you want, so don't et anyone tell you the job HAS to be a certain way. Sounds more like you have a passion for automotive design so I would probably go that way if I were you. There are many tangent fields so start with what you think is most interesting for you, and shift to a slightly different career path if you find a roadblock to what you are pursuing. Perhaps you will be in the auto design field but find that it is too restrictive with the bean counters and giov't regulations. Then you change a little and go do some design work for the movie industry or something like that. Always look at the big picture and try to do what you enjoy, that way you will naturally be doing your best work, and be a happy person to boot!

BT

 

Here are some images of the "Spyker World" design.
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Architecture is a cruel mistress. I do not really view it so much as a profession as I do a calling. The ability to visualize 3-dimensional space is either in your DNA or it is not - it's not something, in my experience, that can be taught. The reason the attrition rate in the first year of architecture school is so high, is that the kids who simply do not have this ability quickly fall by the wayside. Now combine this innate ability with really hard work and you have a successful graduate from architecture school. Now it's time to work. You go from the lofty ideals of studio where your designs are metaphors for man's inhumanity against man (or other perennial favorites) to detailing ceiling-hung toilet partition details in a firm. As one poster pointed out above, architecture may be the only traditional profession that suffers from the absurd phenomena where the more famous the design firm, the worse the compansation is for the young architect. (I blame this on Frank Lloyd Wright, but that is another conversation).

It is more difficult to become an architect than an attorney; the architect must have either a 5 or 6 year professional degree in architecture, 3 years of internship, followed by the 4-day registration exam which makes the bar exam look like a cakewalk; I've taken both. The attorney can have any undergraduate degree in the world, 3 years of law school and take the bar about 6 weeks after graduation. My pay scale for architecture isn't up-to-date, but I think you could walk into the Washington office of SOM and probably get an offer in the high 40s, maybe $50k as a newbie. On the other hand, my law firm (where I draft/negotiate construction and design contracts) pays 25 year olds $160k. Both individuals will work 2400 hours + in their first year.

I practiced architecture for about 12 years in some big corporate firms; I am proud of the work that I did and have to confess that I miss the practice every day. That said, I do not miss the really crappy pay or the joy of getting laid off about every 8 years, even at the highest levels of the profession. The recession of 91-93 is what put me over the edge. My wife at the time and I were both architects and we were both laid off within a few weeks of each other. We nearly lost our house. I was lucky enough to get on the Pei Cobb Freed/Ellerbe Becket project that was eventually called the Ronald Reagan Building in DC which kept about 40 of us busy for five years. This project was in litigation almost from day one and I noticed that the so-called "construction lawyers" didn't really know jack about construction, so I took the LSATs and went to law school at night. I still design about 2 residences per year (only for people I know because the payment problem someone mentioned above is real and truly frightening) so I don't go insane. I feel like I practice architecture now the way Thomas Jefferson intended; as a gentleman's hobby and not relying on it to feed my family.

One of the best quotes I've ever heard that captures the love it-hate it essence of the practice of architecture was when an architect won the state lottery and he was asked the usual question ; what are your going to do with all the money?? "I'm going to practice architecture until the money is gone!"

I have no idea if this diatribe is helpful to you at all; I don't know anything about the business aspects of the automotive design profession. My sense is that, for whatever reason, most design professions are tough, demand complete dedication and tend to be particularly harsh on its youngest members.

 

Rijk...as usual, great design and imaging work from your office. You're one of the fortunate few who made it all the way through the architectural filtering process.

Bryan...Mid 1985 thru late 1989 were horrible here in Dallas, a true depression. In late '85 I was lucky enough to hook up with a very talented guy who was doing large traditional homes in LA. That work and odd small projects here kept me on my feet. In early '90, building started up again here and I stayed very busy from then until I hung up it in Aug. '04.

Bill...32 when I got my license, but then didn't get my degree until I was 27...in and out of college a few times. I don't know what the policy is now on time between retakes, but I failed the 12-hr design section on my first try in summer 1980 and had to wait a full year to retake it.

 

Scott,

I failed my first design exam also. Only later I understood that they were not looking for design. Just complience.

The second time I was much better prepared and just did what I thought they wanted to see and I finished almost three hours early. I rolled up my stuff and brought it to the examinars......... They said: "sorry that you have to give up, next year better". That confused me and I had to explain "No, I'm not giving up, I'm finished".

 

Rijk...pretty much my story, different words.

The 12-hr. section started at 7AM; the problem was a college library on a difficult site. I had a scheme that was both unique and workable nailed by 11AM and was ready to draft it up, but then decided to check square footage...I was 1000SF/15% over the stated program. I freaked, went mentally dysfunctional, handed in my mess a couple of hours later, and left for the bar.

2 months later, when results came back, I was pleased to see that although I failed design, I had passed all the other sections. I also found out that a couple of friends who were way over on footage passed because they stuck it out and handed in complete, neatly drawn sets with very ordinary, compliant solutions....but they had failed some of the other sections I passed, such as the hard part of structures.

Newly encouraged, in the intervening year I took a practice-run test and went back in June 81 with a totally pragmatic attitude...handed in the completed problem about an hour early and passed.

 

I took a practice exam from a friend who had taken the license exam the year prior. I tried to do a good design, but he pointed out the couple of places where I might get failed. Whe I wasallowed to sit for the exam, I was ready. Two of everything - drafting boards, chairs, etc... 200 pre sharpened pencils, 150 pieces of tape precut and hanging around the edge of the board. While setting up, one of the proctors came over and said "My we're feeling anal today aren't we?" I just smiled. It really is primarily a drafting exercise, with a few tricks thrown in. If I had failed I would have had to wait another year also. Even now with the exams on computer you have to wait 6 months to retake a design seciton, and it takes 3 months to get the score from a mulitple choice exam. You would think they could tell you the next day. Anyway, I am hoping to be pretty much done with this career in about 5 years if all goes well. I would probably still do 1-2 houses per year, but that's about it. Also, the profession is very different regionally. The Florida market is all about chepa fees and boxes with crappy stucco bands around the windows. I prefer to do work in Scottsdale, AZ and Park City, UT. Tough profession for sure.
BT

 

Bill: From the second time around on the design problem, I remember a guy who brought a complete big old-style oak drafting table mounted on wheels. Didn't know him and since I was oblivious to everything except my own work, I don't know if he finished and passed or not. Yeh, tough profession, for sure, but also interesting experiences along the road..

 

About 14 years ago I left private practice for the government side and have not regretted it. Normal hours, lots of vacation, good benefits, good retirement and, most of all, time to be with the family and drive the Ferrari. I guess I could make more money in private practice but would probably end up in the hospital or worse.

You can make a small fortune in Architecture if you start now with a large fortune and work it very hard.