Are fat loss and bulk gain mutually exclusive?

You can bulk up, but not as quickly i believe. That's why they have thsoe supplements. I've tried to eat 3000 cals a day and it is ****ing hard. You basically need no life to eat all the time and work out. Couldn't do it and Good luck!

 

Tillman
Bulking up shouldn't be to hard to do if you really wish to do it. It will not only depend on how much you eat but what you eat. Not knowing what your daily diet is i'd recommed adding more protein through substitution. ie if you have oatmeal in the morning instead of using milk or water use egg whites. Also if possible add an extra day of lifting if you can.

Good Luck,

Don

 

How tall are you?

Best advice is to go ahead and loose the weight you want to loose before you begin your bulking process. In my exp, adding bulk under a decent fat layer will make you think you are just getting fatter.

Skip the 3000 or what ever diet and keep up the cardio till you get to the weight you want. Then we can talk about bulk.

Oh and it is true that you can be strong as hell and still be thin. We have boys that can bench 300+ and look like sticks.

 

Tillman - I'll "weigh in" tomorrow on the actual discussion, as I've got to hit the sheets, but, damn! :::::applause::::: I'm proud of ya! *wipes tear*

 

Do you have a George Foreman? Just thaw and soak those bagged boneless skinless breasts in italian dressing, some garlic salt with a little bit of lemon juice and throw them in for 7 minutes. Perfecto!

 

I am almost willing to bet that if you actually add up your diet in a 24 hour period, you are eating WAY more than 800 cals. 800 cals is hardly a subsistence diet. Three meals of lean cuisine would be about 1200 right there, and I bet you eat more that that.

On the bright side, I doubt you really need to loose a full 20lbs more either. I am 5'10" and about 180. I am in pretty nice shape now thanks to my year in the sand getting me back in to shape from a year of scotch and ice cream. I would tell you to try to peg to maybe 170, which was my lightest last year when I was sliming down.

If you can keep from walking and actually run the whole distance- 3 miles at least!- you will slim down much faster. Nothing knocks off the fat like running.

 

I'll give you some advice.

First---- Be careful with bulking. You have a history of "eating" too much. Once you start consuming 3,000 calories a day, you might fall back into the old routine. Just giving you a warning to be careful. I've seen it happen to a few people.

It's hard and almost impossible to bulk up/cut up at the same time. I'd lose the 20lb first. Consume lots of protein and vegetables. Only consume the carbs in the morning.

As for bulking, I think it's over rated. I'm pretty athletic and I feel just slow/sluggish if I do it. Plus, it's not that pretty while your bulking. You'll look "puffy" usually while bulking. Usually you'll have to bulk 30lb, to maybe pack on 10lb of muscle. Then you'll have to cut up the 20lb again.

What I'd do- Cut up the 20lb. Then start adding a little more calories which will slowly pack on the muscle. They should come from complex carbs like oatmeal, brown rice etc. I'd add 400 calories (so like oatmeal during breakfast, brown rice lunch, sweet potato 4pm). You will slowly gain the muscle, but you'll feel better and will avoid the bad old habits. 2,000 calories a day is what I would max out at. I'd try 160gm protein.

Now most body builders will say that's way to low. But, I don't think you are planning on competing.

Here is a rough diet...
meal1-Grapefruit, oatmeal, scoop whey protein shake.
meal2-1/4cup raw almonds, broccoli with 4oz beef.
meal3-chicken breast with a little brown rice.
meal4-pwo-2scoops whey, 1tbs natural peanut butter.
meal5-chicken with sweet potato.
meal6-salad with tuna and 1tbs olive oil.

Just my imput.

 

+1

Great job on working hard and striving to become a lean mean machine Tillman.

I would also focus first and foremost on losing the additional 20lbs you want to. Very important. Then you need to focus on eat a very lean diet high in proteins. Chicken and fish are the absolute best thing for this. I would have 1-2 steaks per week. And limit tuna intake to no more than 3 times. Be prepared for people to start gawking at you for eating so healthy and the same thing everyday. I've heard it for the past 2 years. I hoped to set a precedent, but people are too weak. LOL.

My daily meal is something like this:
Meal 1: Bowl of cereal and a whey protein shake (sometimes just one or the other before I walk out the door)
Meal 2: Oatmeal. I just have the sugar free packets at the office since it's the most convenient and I don't have to keep a large bowl in my desk.
Snack: Some peanuts/walnuts/sunflower seeds. Usually a combination of all. Around a handful or a little more than.
Meal 3: Boneless/skinless chicken breast and a vegatable/fruit....sometimes brown rice
Snack: Yogurt and fruit/veggie
Meal 4: Chicken Breast and fruit or veggie
Meal 5: Post workout Shake (PWO)
Meal 6: Tuna sandwich or fish or steak and salad

With as much as your running I would see no problem in having at least 2000 calories a day. 1200 calories with how much your working out is far too little. I would bring it up to 2000 and see how you feel and body differences. I would also cut out just one day a week of running to rest. Start lifting heavy. Do heavy weight low reps (3 sets x 4-7reps). And make sure to mix it up. Do a combo Chest/Back, Shoulders/Legs, Bi's/Tri's.

Continued success T. Just mix up a few things and see what works for you.

 

I'm in almost the identical situation, needing to lose +/- 20 lbs and trying to pack on the muscle. I started a competition with a friend in similar need as me (to keep us both on track) and to start off we both went to a Dietician to have our diet analyzed and our body fat tested to have a gauge to work off of. She said the same thing that most have already said to you in this thread, you can't do both at the same time, focus on the weight first and then the bulking up. We also discussed a strategy to help lose the weight in a fast manner, a routine called HIIT or high intensity interval training, where you do very intense exercise for a minute and then the same thing done much lighter for the next minute, doing that for 15-20 minutes. Supposedly it has shown to help people shed lbs faster then traditional workout methods and also, its something different then what I was currently doing.
Since I started doing it, I've lost 11 lbs in about 6 months without any change to my diet, about 2500 calories a day. You're almost dead afterwards but it has worked for me very well, as I had reached a plateau in my weight loss that this helped to break. Your body gets used to the same type of exercise and the return is less over time, then when you switch it up to something your body isn't used to, the change is greater.
Best of luck to you and congrats on the major success thus far.

 

Some people can't believe I eat the same thing everyday from breakfast to my afternoon meal (dinner is different). I actually prefer it as I don't have to "worry" about what to eat for breakfast and lunch. The cheapest protein you will find are egg whites. I get those 18 count packs from Costco for cheap and have 8 egg whites a day for breakfast with whole wheat bread and a vitamin. Stick to fish and chicken for other forms of protein later in the day. Carbs later on is only brown rice and for fats (other than from fish) I go with almonds or peanuts. Just be careful with the peanuts and almonds because you can get out of hand with them if you don't stop eating them. Also, drink plenty of water.

As far as working out, keeping in mind resting skeletal muscle burns fat. The more muscle you put on, the more fat you will burn. I know people who do ZERO cardio and just lift weights and are under 8% body fat. Granted, genetics come into play, but you will burn fat if you watch your intake and put on muscle. Additionally, you can get a good workout by using a treadmill set at 10% incline and walking at around 4 mph. Burns a lot of calories. Screw running and damaging your hips/knees.

P.S. I lift every 3 days and only compound movements (i.e. Monday, Thursday, Sunday, etc). They need plenty of rest so get as much sleep as well.

 

Yea remember you aren't gaining muscle in the gym your gaining it at home resting and eating. You cant get any bigger unless your taking in the food to support growth. Everyone else pretty much said all this already but I figure I can help out where I can. Also buy some protein powder if your not eating a lot of chicken and fish. Right after you work out take in some whey protein it is absorbed quickly and thats the best time to take it. ON (optimum nutrition) gold standard 100% whey is pretty good stuff and you can pick it up at GNC or online for a lot cheaper ($43 or something close to it for 5 pound tub). You could also try creatine which gets a bad rep but as long as you take in water and take the recommended 5 grams on work out days you'll be just fine. A lot of the bad rep is just ignorance and people saying what they heard from the friend of a friend. You will probably put on water weight though with creatine though so it might not be for you. Either way you look AWESOME man thats a great transformation. Don't get down on yourself the gains will come in time. Good luck and any questions feel free to PM me.

 

Creatine has a side effect of holding in water and making you look puffy. If you stop taking it, you piss it out eventually. The real deal with that stuff (according to my biochem professor in college), is that you take in excess creatine to push over the equilibrium for the production of phosphocreatine in your muscles. That substance along with phosphocreatine kinase (an enzyme) allows your muscles to contract with calcium (iirc). Taking creatine supplements will build up that substance so you can work out harder (i.e. with more weights) and longer so you build up more mass quickly. I don't remember everything he said exactly. He said no one right now knows the long term effects of taking these supplements. He said they could all eventually have a horrible illness or great health long in life, LOL!

 

Haha I'll take the second option. I do agree with you that creatine bloats your muscles however, if you can lift heavier for even just a month then you are going to see greater gains in that month. So while you may shrink a little after the creatine it is my experience and others that you will still make larger gains then you would without the creatine.

 

Creatine is used a lot for the college guys. If you are thin and ripped, it'll make you look much larger quickly. I don't use it and usually don't recomend people using it. It does let you lift heavier so you can get more gains, but the creatine gains themselves are only while taking it.

I've heard lots of stars in Hollywood use it for the movies. It's how they get that huge look quickly for a movie. Perfect example is Ryan Reynolds in Blade 3. Read down and you'll see how they mention the Creatine. It's very hard to be ripped and big.
Here is Ryan Reynolds with Creatine-
http://www.sixpacknow.com/reynolds4.jpg
Here he is shortly without (I think).
http://www.sixpacknow.com/ryanreynolds_marie_claire.jpg
BIG DIFFERENCE!
Here is the article and he mentions it-
http://www.sixpacknow.com/ryan_reynolds_workout.html

 

I'm down approximately 60 lbs since October. I am getting VERY cut. I prefer being cut, chicks respond very well to me. I notice it especially because the weight loss and me getting in good physical condition occurred so close together. I can wear slim fit t-shirts, straight leg jeans, etc.

Anyway, my diet is extremely consistent.

Morning: Met-Rx meal supplement (38 grams protein). I buy this online 42 packs at time for $52.
Lunch: Turkey, salami, turkey-pepperoni meat on a low glycemic wrap; an apple and a cup of sugar free pudding
Mid afternoon: Low sugar protein bar
Dinner: Grilled chicken breast (with skin) or baked pork roast or a steak with a salad and another apple with some peanut butter
Evening: Mixed nuts or a low sugar protein bar

This is a diet I can deal with and it's pretty much been the same since October with very little variation.

I eat junk like a pizza or chicken wings once every 10 days or so.

Gym every morning at 6 am. 30 min elliptical, then lift moderate weights. Monday/Tuesday/Thursday/Friday.

Wednesday/Saturday: 10 mile bike ride. Off on Sundays.

RMX

 

Your referring to it as if it were a steroid of sorts. It is only a supplement and will only "supplement" your diet. Ryan Reynolds had an insane trainer and I'm sure a nutritionist monitoring him which is how he got big quick. Also he has been ripped in a couple of his past movies see... Amityville Horror. Not saying he didn't take creatine just saying its not some miracle drug.

 

Lanx, I know my stuff, I have been weight training 10+years. Creatine is not a steroid and I did not come off saying it was. It's the last I'll say on this subject because I don't want this thread off topic. But Creatine is a "miracle" supplement for most people. Not many supplements can have you gain 10lbs in a month. Trust me, a personal trainer can help with being cut, etc. But, no amount of training can give you 10# of muscle in a month.

 

I know how well you've done over the past years. However, I would recommend cutting out the chicken with skin and go for skinless.

It's funny if you go to the gym enough you eventually see who's taking what. I know one guy had a very low bf% and was pretty big for his size. Then he disappeared for a month or so. When I saw him again he was about half as big as before, although still very muscular. It was the first time I had seen the huge difference creatine can make on both sides of the fence. It immediately turned me off from every taking it.

 

Alrighty, I do know my stuff also, but I'm sure you have a lot of information to share that I know little about so we will keep this thread on topic.

 

The two are not mutually exclusive but it depends on quite a few factors.

1. age
2. diet/ supplimentation
3. type of exercise

and most importantly:

4. your expectation of what gain and fat loss are. If you are going to look like Arnold, then yes it is mutually exclusive. You are not going to get specific musculature without first bulking then cutting. However, if you are going for the 300 type look (Gerald Butler) then they are not exclusive.

I am looking for the latter. The best way to attain both is to circuit train HARD and eat clean and often. My workout last night was:

5 Sets each superset with no rest:
185lb bench to failure on each set then run to pullup bar and do those to failure.

following these 5 sets each (10 total) we walked to the ab/stretch area and did 5 sets of abs (elevated situp/ crunch/ inverse bench, etc.)

walked back to the weight area and did 5 supersets of squat superset with walking split squat.

At this point I was effing spent. Lungs burnt, muscles punished. Walked outside the gym, got three steps and puked.

I feel great today (streched after workout) and cannot wait for the next session. Intensity is the key.

Another example of this type of training:
http://workout-fitness.blogspot.com/2008/01/spartan-training.html

Edit: Forgot that we threw in some bicep curls at the end just because we like em.. lol Also, note that despite a full body workout that just crushed me, I was done (with workout partner) in about 45mins.

 

No, if by bulking you mean gaining muscle

I've just dropped about 9# but I went up a lot in muscle bcus Ive been at the gym every day for 10 days now and dieting hard

When you gain muscle the muscle actually devours your fat to maintain itself

So my strategy for fat loss is to gain muscle & let the larger muscles help by feeding off the fat

 

You really need to take at least a day off, if not 2 per week.

 

+1 and get adequate sleep. You gain muscle while resting, not at the gym. Gym tears them down so that they can grow back stronger but you need to rest to facilitate that.