are ferraris days numbered?

being the same age as you, i assure you, when i go to car meets and local dragstrips, the young guys are amazed at the 500 eclipse but would so trade that rice rocket for any Ferrari, image and status mean everything to us young people, and thats wat ferrari sells. on mtvs popular shows, all u see are dropped bentleys, astons, ferrari, porsche lambos. thats wwe dream about

after seeing the publics reaction at the ferrari stand at the car show, ferrari will be here for a long timeeeeeeee

 

Actually, Lambo lists the Sv at 3366pds. I have not weighed my car, but i believe their weights are true as i weighed my 92 on 4pt scales at just over 3500pds after my exhaust install, which shaves about 90pds. Lambo listed its weight at just over 3600pds. Spot on. Oh, and my 92 had gas in it (how much i dont remember and all fluids).

 

So then Ferrari will continue to merely exist as a status symbol, one to be admired but left in the garage, while other more sporting cars are enjoyed.

I like performance and style, more than status.

 

Yep and like I have already said, those that really want to go fast will buy a Porsche.

Pete

 

A bigger concern would be the CL65...I am not sure if the SL will be getting the 65, but I am sure someone will chime in.

You named a lot of cars that are certainly competing for the checkbooks, but as they say, different strokes for different folks. Everyone has their own perception of each. As fast as the SL55 is, having driven one for a weekend I can say that I see it as a great daily driver. I have similar feelings with the 911 Turbo for some reason. It is fast as hell, but I have always seen it as being mundane for a toy car.

Ferrari or Lambo are about it in my mind for a non-daily driven vehicle, and seeing as that is how most of them end up getting driven, I don't see Ferrari dissappearing into the sunset anytime soon.

As long as they make them, there will be people who can and will buy them.

-ag

 

I have an SL65 on order, should be here this summer, I am told. Dealer can't tell me the MSRP yet. Car is going to be 604 HP and over 700 pounds of torque. To be truthful, if the MSRP is over $180K, I would rather have a 575M.

 

I thought it was only going to be sold in Europe...

 

With the utmost respect to you, and your SV, because I know you use them more then many owners of lesser cars worrying they'll dent it... but, many Lambo purchases are pure satus. Not even a performance/style statement, but reduced to bragging rights at the golf course. These owners sadly don't believe in the history nor in the current tales of their "investment."

But, I suppose, this arguement of pure status fits for many cars of all sports car marques.

Happy Driving!

 

I hold Lambo buyers who purchase their cars just for status in the same regard.

 

I was next to a 360 spider while driving a '96 TT, we proved the TT is faster, but the guy in the 360 looked like he could not care less. That seems like it sums it up. Sold the TT.

 

Ferrari owners are trained to look that way. It eats them up, but they dont let it show. How could they? They get blown away by almost every other car.

 

Yes, the "status" and "collectable" portions of the market is probably more than adequate to sustain Ferrari. HOWEVER, "merely" is NOT even close to right... in fact, let's completely ignore that crowd for the rest of this note...

I, too, am more focused on performance and style... couldn't care less about status or collectability. And so, with all the cars out there that I could buy, what did I choose? Ferrari!!

Style-wise, the most beautiful cars newer than 1985 are IMO: Mclaren F1, F50, Challenge Stradale, 360, ... Not everyone would agree with that... many rank the 355 above the 360... others the 550/575 above it... others the TR's above it. Unlike many marques (like Porsche, BMW, Lambo) that have a look (a style), Ferrari manages to cultivate and sustain several styles appealing to different people. And that makes a Ferrari concorso soooo much more interesting, sooo much more artistic, and sooo much more appealing than any other marque on the planet. (IMO, of course.)

Performance-wise, I don't care about 0-60 times or other forms of drag racing; if I wanted to "win" the "race", I'd get a Radical or other "race car". Track times on a road course are a good *indicator*, but just that... an indicator. Its not about getting the best times. Performance is about how a car makes you feel ... its about the driving experience ... its about the sound transmitted through your ears, the feel of the road transmitted through the steering wheel to your hands, and the feel of g-forces transmitted through the suspension and chassis to your whole body. In this sense of performance, Ferrari is unmatched... they deliver that consistently and exceeedingly. I've never been in a car that delivers this like my 360. But, if all the magazine reviews are right, there is one that does... it certainly isn't the Gallardo... its the Stradale. And that's why I have one on the way!!


The horsepower numbers game is NOT where its at... hasn't been for a long time. Ferraris have always had plenty of power to exceed the tire traction available. More horsepower largely just means more traction control intervention or more tire smoke. BFD. Yes, more horsepower is better... but once you've got "plenty", then further increases are just tiny gains. 400HP vs. 500HP vs. 600HP... small gains in absolute acceleration as you're traction limited... and even smaller gains in "fun" as your body can't distinguish the difference.

How much horsepower is "plenty" for "fun driving experience" rather than winning races? Depends upon the weight of the car... but roughly 300-500HP. And that's what the vast majority of Ferraris have always had... since right back into the 60's. The 3200-3600 pound cars tend to have 400-500 hp; the lighter cars have less horsepower. Not because Ferrari doesn't know how to make more... hell, they know how to get waayyyyy more out of the same size engine... they don't because its simply not needed... you're in the range of diminishing returns.

So, BFD that the 3350lb Gaylardo has 500HP... I'd rather have the much lighter 3000lb 425HP Stradale, numbers-wise. Not to mention that the Stradale does soooo much better job of transmitting that to my body, hands, and ears. And that's just talking performance...

The Gaylardo is exotic looking... but in an ugly, chopped-off sort of way. Coupled with the Audi interior, its waayyy down on style points to the 360 or Stradale. And the Gaylardo is wholly disfunctional... not an issue for a racecar... but absolutely an issue for a car that you want to take on driving excursions across the country. The Gaylardo loses to the Stradale in almost every way... other than "greater ability to smoke tires".


No, Ferrari's days are NOT numbered... they still build the best performing, best styled, acceptably practical drivers' cars on the planet! That's why the Stradale and 360 Spyder still have waiting lists, and the Gaylardo doesn't.


P.S. Just to be clear: I'd love to add another 50HP to my Stradale... more is better... but given it has plenty, adding that HP is a relatively tiny issue. I'd much rather shed 200 pounds than add 50HP. I don't want Ferrari spending more money and focus on getting to 500HP... I'd rather them spend that on reducing weight and increasing reliability. I'd rather them spend money on getting rollbar and harnesses approved for the US market. I'd rather a lower pricetag on the car.

 

I am a little stunned at this argument, we can thow numbers around all day and it will not make a jot of difference. people will buy what they want and gives them a buzz, if we all had wheel barrows there would be no hand carts.
Many moons ago I had a very well sorted Lancia Integrale. I loved it and to me it was the dogs do da's. I could give a pal of mine's 911 a good run. BUT Some time later I drove a Subaru impreza owned by the local dealer who had had this thing really warmed up. It would have stuffed the Lancia in a head to head, my excuse was that the Lancia was a little long in the tooth .
The point is, there is always something quicker, the numbers don't mean that much.
The only problem I have with Ferrari is that they seem to want to take over the whole thing, if you are a member of the FOC you will know what I mean.
This direction is not good.

 

i don't like the way ferrari has developed. i think the last real ferrari was the 355. if you show a child a picture of the car, it'll associate it with the term ferrari. if i show my mother a pic of a silver 360, she says: "looks like a porsche". that doesn't mean, that i don't like the 360. i think it's a modern sportscar and looks great, but it looks not so ferrarilike. as a matter of fact i really don't like the style of the enzo. it is, in my eyes, the first ferrari which sold ferrari because of commerce pressure. f40 and f50 were anniversary cars and the enzo? why did ferrari brought the enzo, for which reason?

i hope that there's coming a ferrari in the style of the 348,355,288,512 and not a car like the smart faced 612.

 

Numbered?? Absolutely!
therefore, you should sell your wonderfully cared for Ferraris to me for Daewoo prices.... (remember Daewoo?)

 

"and their street cars tear up a 180,000 Ferrari" --then why don't you a) STFU, and then b) get rid of your lousy piece of slow-as-snot expensive junk?

Ok, lets look at an F355 versus an F1 car.

Engine position: Read-Mid-engine
Engine size: 3.5 vs. 3.0
Engine oiling system: dry sump, high volume, high pressure, oil-to-air heat exchanger
Air Ingress: straight with velocity stacks
Exhaust egress: tuned headers (F355 has cats and muffler)
Front suspension: short/long a-arms
Steering, rack and pinion, power assisted on F355.
Rear suspension: short/long a-arms
Radiator position: amidship
Radiator air ingress: beside driver/passenger
Radiator air egress: rear duct F1 vs engine bay F355
Transmission: F1 vs F1 available for F355
Brakes: Big disks, large calipers (size advantage goes to road car)

When you look at it this way, these are the only cars that bear semblance to current F1 machines, The 360 looses several of those things that makes the F355 closer to F1 than the current 360.

 

Speaking of Ferraris blown away, Allan you'd be interested to know that a Ferrari 360GT from the ALMS series was beaten by an old an lowly Porsche 928. Mark Anderson, a privateer and owner of 928 International qualified 7th in a field of 40 with a 6.4Liter 500hp 1988 928 whilst being saddled with a 500lb weight penalty. He has no paddle shift but a 5spd tranny, no antil lock but he is using the 6 piston front calipers from a Ferrari F50, no fancy underbody ground effects, just a big wing to keep the rear from coming around on the oval. He finished second both days out of the 40 car field and even managed to lead the 2004 Porsche Cup car for a few laps. In POC events he can pull the 500lbs out and run/beat the TT's and GT2's.

http://www.corbu.us/index.html

Scroll down the page and you will clearly see a Ferrari GT sandwiched in between two race built 928's that are a third the cost if that much.


P.S. That 928 is street legal. A 360GT is not and I'd love to have a run in with a Stradale on the street while driving that thing.

 

For all you morons out there who think that Ferrari has problems, you need a brain transplant. The brand is the most well known auto brand, it sells out all of its production, it keeps on winning races at the highest level and everyone who doesn't have one wants one.

Lambo on the other hand - now there's a company constantly in trouble - multiple owner changes in just the last ten years. Its new model, the Gallardo, has been out just a scant few weeks in the USA and already there are sub MSRP cars available in the classifieds of Autoweek. It seems that HP alone won't do the trick. Heritage is the main ingredient and all Lambo has to point to is the great win in the Tractor Grand Prix against a tired John Deere.

 

You mean youd rather have the already proven that it doesnt have 425hp, and doesnt weigh 3000pds Stradale over the Gallardo? Cool!

If all the magazines are right, its certainly the Stradale, not Gallardo? Haha, how much would you like to bet that the overwhelming majority of magazines picks the Gallardo over the Stradale? Im very fond of my magazine collection, and as everyone knows, i love to magazine race. If youd like, id love to play this game with you.

Funny, you spend so much time on Ferraris are about race, and weight, and perfect blend of power to weight etc, the Gallardo is fat, heavy etc. Funny how with all that against it, it still blew the doors off the Stradale on both the Nurburgring and Hockenheim, on street tires, while the Stradale was on race tires.

As for looks department, purely subjective. I for one, have never liked the 360. The front nose is hideous. From my brief drive in a Gallardo, people went crazy for it, something which has never happened through hundreds of miles behind the wheel of a 360 throughout the years.

 

I have seen that car, and i love the 928, i had an awesome 1988.

 

I really don't care what the performance numbers are on the 612. The thing looks horriable. That car is not a Ferrari IMHO. If this is the type of demographic Ferrari is going after then they are in serious trouble. They have a really nice car with the 575 and the 360. But even the 360 is boarder line "hairdresser triying to look important" looking. It's too soft and too wimpy looking. Now the CS is another story all togehter. Some of the owners an this sight have done a fantastic job making the 360 into what it should have been from the start.

Ferrari needs to get back to what made their street cars feared and lusted after. Why are they going after the Lincoln crowd with the checkered pants who use to drive a town car? The only place you'll see the 612 is in a gay pride perade. Because it look like a rolling cock. Sorry Ferrari is not the company it once was.

 

LOL that was hilarious!

 

LOL 612+rolling cock! Nice couldnt of said it better myself!