are ferraris days numbered?

I agree...good one Tom. Funny thread....

 

Well stated > 575 Mike

One reason they always talk about HP is because they can not compete on any other level. The last thing I thought about when I bought my F-car was horse power, ( it is horse power not bull power, bull usually is associated with nonsense much of which is spread on this site ) I was thinking of the History/Legend.

I have built powerful muscle cars and really enjoy taking my 63 Impala out and blowing the doors off of new Vettes. Power is fun, prestige and fine craftsmanship is more rewarding.

Nice thing I feel I have both power and prestige. I need to prove nothing at the 1/4 mile. Just the fact that everyone trys to discredit Ferrari proves it is at the top to me.

I really liked the analagy of a tough woman versus a knockout. How true!

 

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No, I have the factory information on the car such as colors. Both CL 65 and SL 65 will be sold in the US beginning mid summer/early fall of 04. Waiting for pricing which should come soon.

 

ferrari is not outnumbered theere are still many people that want ferrari's and when we see one on the road we love...this site has grown so ferrrari's are not out

 

You've got to give "Allanlambo" credit, he does get everyone worked up, you should all know better by now, but I guess it's fun arguing the various points. What I can't figure out is why own a 355 if he hates the marque so much? I guess it's frustrating to know that since day one, no matter what the Lambo company comes up with, most people would opt for the Ferrari.

 

Why do I feel THIS is happening more and more frequently?

 

Ferrari days are not numberd, You people are ignorant that think that. They have been going strong for the past decade the 348,355, the 360 even though not as gorgous as the 355 its still one hell of a car and is still selling very well. They have moved out of the super exotic range but the Enzo is still there for that and you dont see a 360 on every street corner anyways. There performance is a little behind currently with the 360 compared to over cars like the Gallardo hopefully the next replacment will be better. Lamborghini is a very good auto maker the Murcialgo the Gallardo very well built and good cars with really no downsides and I hope Ferrari can be even or close to what they offer. Ferrari also has F1 the name "Ferrari" in it self makes millions it was the top searched word on google last year.

Not trying to start a flamewar between Ferrari Vs others but Ferrari is not going to falll people are still very much buying the cars and are still very much exotic to the normal person its not a Zonda or Mclaren but its still exotic.

 

Yes, Ferrari's days certainly are numbered, as are your days and mine. The question is, how many days remain? Will the world end tomorrow? Probably not. But who knows?

 

Nice Audi!But pricey for a reskinned something else, but Audi went one better with their Le Mans concept. Better looking, similar V-10 but this one has some racing heritage, unlike the tractor brand.

And who cares how the Gallardo rates statistically. I'll wager that 99% of the participants on F-chat, especially those that spout excessive HP numbers among Ferrari's competition, have never, ever and I mean ever, experienced speed or acceleration beyond what is available in a run of the mill mid-range BMW or Mercedes or anything else capable of eventually going around 140 MPH.
Cruising in a Ferrari at 40 MPH through your local neighborhood is priceless. That's why everyone wants a Ferrari!

 

Let's play then... but don't twist my words. The magazines have nearly uniformly agreed that the feel and handling and driver experience of the Stradale is superior... some blame it on the Gallardo's AWD... some on the Audi connection... some to the Ferrari magic/mystique.

But, many of the magazines do indeed pick the Gallardo as their favorite... some because they prefer the looks, some because it turns in much better 0-60 and 1/4 times, etc.

I was not asserting the mags all picked the Stradale... what I asserted was that most preferred the driver feel of the Stradale. So, why do I pick the Stradale over the Gallardo, even when the mags have often picked the Gallardo? Because I weight things differently than the mag writers... I weight 1/4 mile times low, and 0-60 times even lower... I don't care at all what they think of the looks (have my own opinions there)... and I weight very heavily the driver experience, the sensations you get while driving. Based on that weighting, the mags seem to more consistently rate the Stradale higher than any other car... other than a few that are in the half million and up range.

"Blew the doors off"? A bit of an exaggeration there. But yes, the Gallardo is fast... I don't dispute that. But it feels fat, heavy, and "dead" per those same mag reports that show it turning better times. I don't care as much about the times as I care about the "feels".

Further, I like to autocross... and in autocross, the 360 will kick the Gallardo's ass. Soooo, given my autocrossing is competitive but my track time is not so competitive... the 360 actually comes out on top even in that respect.


It all depends upon what is most important to each of us! But to the point of this thread, given the waiting list for the Stradale and the immediate availability of the Gallardo, I'd say there's plenty of people who would agree with my preference... and Ferrari is doing just fine!!

 

It's not worth it, Alex. It's clear that there are very insecure people out there who get off on telling people that the things they are enthusiastic about are junk. They say stuff that (hopefully) they wouldn't say in person. Why they enjoy doing it on an online forum where people come to share a passion, not destroy it, is beyond me, aside from some need to bolster their own self-image.

 

so true my friend, Tiff Needel even said it, if uhave 100k dont waste ur money on the gallardo, get the 360. all the magics in the prancing horse, cant beleve people are accusing Ferrari when lambo has sold its soul and will see audis using the same engine and chassis, absolutely sad. jeremy clarkson even accused lambo for making the gallardo to errr german?

 

No no no, i want you show real Magazines. You know like the recent Evo where the Stradale came in 4th, the Gallardo 2nd, just barely behind the Gt3.

As for blew it doors off? Yes. 4 seconds is blowing its doors off, 2 tenths of a second is close.

and now you are figuratively racing a 36 and a Gallardo in autocross...lol

 

Zach, thank you for adding rational and intelligent comments to a discussion which is in desperate need of them.

 

All gas burning cars' days are numbered. There's only a set amount of fossil fuel in the world. With that said, onto the question at hand.

As for the argument of the relevancy of F1 heritage in Ferrari's street cars. I personally respect that Ferrari is at the top of the F1 game. But I do wish they would enter the sports car field. That is where I think most of us can relate. I doubt if I will ever get to pilot an F1 car but I do drive sports cars. And as much as I respect Porsche in being the top dog in sportscar racing. I just can't get past the styling. With the exception of the Carrera GT. And unfortunately, I can't afford that at the moment.

When I do watch a sports car race, I'm cheering on the 575s and the 360s. But it pains me to know that they don't have full factory support. I want Ferrari to take it to Porsche in a big way.

On the styling front, I'm not a big fan of current Ferrari's. They do catch my eye but I don't find myself lusting after them as I do my Dino or a 250SWB or a 275GTB or a P4. I bought my Dino the second I knew I could afford it. And it was purely based on style. I knew of the heritage but that mattered less to me than the styling of the car. And after driving her, I found that she has a lovely voice as well. A nice side benefit. On the negative side, the driving position is compromised and the seats don't hold you at all. But I love her anyways. I have gotten thumbs ups and approving comments while out on the road with my Dino.

But to tell you the truth, I've gotten more of that reaction with my Opel. Now you might look down on the Opel as having no heritage what-so-ever. But it has style. And people react to style. When I take it to Monterey, my buddy driving my Dino told me that people look more at my Opel than my Dino. Maybe it's the "what is it?" factor. Or maybe the rarity. Imagine that, an Opel GT that's rarer than a Ferrari Dino. Well at least in Monterey during the big weekend. As for style, it's subjective, but the new 612 just doesn't have it.

As for performance, come on, the Dino has a less than 200hp V6. I'm not looking to race anyone. But to tell the truth, I'd be embarrassed at losing to just about any modern sportscar out there. My impression is that it's a Ferrari and a Ferrari shouldn't lose to a Honda, or a Mazda, or a whatever. I know it's a 30+ year old car. But so is my Opel and I race the Opel all the time and she's garnered a lot of respect from a lot of sportscar drivers. If I'm after some big dogs, I take my modded 300ZXTT. Now, before you get all hot and heavy about racing on the street, I only do it when there's no one around except our 2 cars. And yes, I can run into public property and all that. I'm not saying that it's right. I'm just owning up to the fact that I've been known to misbehave. What I'm getting at is that it's OK to lose in the Opel or in the Z. But not in the Dino.

In my heart, I wish Ferrari had a top dog car in each category. Some of you have mentioned the Gallardo and how the 360 replacement will close the gap. But I feel that Ferrari is playing catch up instead of taking the lead. Why does it take a Miura, or an NSX, or a Gallardo to wake Ferrari out of it's almightiness?

As for the Enzo, I was disappointed when Ferrari announced that it wasn't challenging the McLaren for top bragging rights. I love the McLaren but somehow, I feel Ferrari backed down.

I grew up on Magnum P.I. I thought the 308 was the coolest car. And I still love the 308. But I was a bit dis-heartened when I started reading car magazines and finding out that Corvettes can beat the 308. But does that mean I would take a Vette over a 308? Hell no. The 308 just oozes style.

As I've said in another post, today's society is all about image. Whether there is substance there or not is irrelevant. I don't think there will be a shortage of Ferrari buyers. But the focus is shifting. As others have said, they are perceived of as status symbols and are being bought to enhance the owner's status more and more. And I hope the Ferrari mystique won't fade off into legend and become just a name/image with no substance.

 

I think you'll lose that bet. There are quite a few track guys here

 

And those that think driving a Ferrari is more prestigious than driving a Lamborghini need to get off the crackpipe.

 

I probably know them all. Have you counted up the number of no profile postings lately?

There are a huge number of people on this board and I stand by the claim that 99% of all posters have never even been to track, let alone driven on one. Whatever the actual case, the point is that there is a whole lot of unqualified juvenile crap being thrown around what was once a rational and fun place to share Ferrari chat.

 

hey guys this is a Ferrari site..so if you hate them post at the lambo site...i for one love the 550 but dont care much for any 2+2, but I will always love Ferraris..and I also love my Daytonas, my Boxer, my TR...hey to each their own...this is a free country..

 

Having experienced yourself the ravaging effects a crackpipe can have on a person's ability to think intelligently, you speak from experience.

 

Look, if it will make all you Ferrari bashers happy,the Ferrari company just announced they're closing shop due to the extreme pressure from other exotics and low sales . Now will you boneheads go away?

 

Ahh, yes... the magazine that felt the Stradale was "too loud", "so bloody loud", and "absurdly loud". Fine, they can rate it in 4th because its too loud... I weight "too loud" with about zero weighting... or maybe even negative weighting.

So, how did they rate the driving feel of the two cars? (Remember, that's what I give the most weight to.)

"For all its compact size, the Gallardo feels heavy but rides with a pliancy that belies its thick-set muscularity. The steering adds to the impression of heft, but it's feelsome enough (Audi's anaethetists haven't deadened it completely)".

"'The steering's slow and can feel artificially weighty at first, and the chassis' blinding competence can leave you wanting more. A bit more of an influence on how you attack a corner, and maybe a bit more involvement when you do overstep the mark."

Hmmm... in all, their commentary sounded more like they were enjoying a ride on a roller coaster than enjoying a drive of a sportscar. In contrast, they summarize the Stradale this way:

"After all's said and done, it's the rawest and most single-minded series-production Ferrari to hit the road in a generation." To a Ferrari lover, that's about the highest praise any car could receive. Obviously, to you Allan, that's a nothing statement.

Of course, most of the article was spent discussing just how loud the Stradale was... "It's so loud it hurts." "The sound of the 360 pierced the canvas roof two corners before you caught up and it scared the living crap out of me!" "I could hear the 360 way before I could see it, and that was from several miles away."


Got any other compelling magazine articles for us? Perhaps one not so distracted by the Stradale's wonderful sound???

 

While you were reading the article did you notice where it said"After all's said and done, it's the rawest and most single-minded series-production Ferrari to hit the road in a generation." It says Ferrari, not automobile. I agree that the 360Cs is one of the best Ferraris to come in along long time. This is what the 360 should of been from the beginning. But now, too little too late. Old and boring. They hyped up the power, they hyped up the weight loss.... All proven to be bull$hit.

I havent driven a CS, i have driven many 360's. There is no comparison between them and a Gallardo. Night and day, in every aspect. So even if the 360CS was a 50% better car than the 360, it still loses.

Btw, the Hockenheim track is more like an Autocross track, short,tight lower speed. The Gallardo did not beat, it did not destroy, IT OBLITERATED the 360 CS. Again, on street tires. You may love your 360. Thats fine. But the fact remains, there are owners on this board, who drove both, and have choosen the Gallardo. The fact remains that the #1 most traded vehicle towards a Gallardo is the 360.

You think the car has great sound? It does, while its chugging along at a snails pace acceleration. I find it very dull. The gearbox stinks, the steering feel horid, great brakes, semi decent style.. Basicly, an overpriced NSX. I feel the same way about the 355. As an experience, the 348/328/308 is more enjoyable.

Face it, Ferrari is catering to an old clientele. Soon the generation that cant renew its drivers license. They are banking on this, as they know the cars will not be driven, just garaged.

 

How many miles did you put on that Stradale that you test drove?

Yeah, right... that's so stupid, I don't know where to start. I'm familiar with the actual usage of over a dozen Stradales... every single one is getting track time... most lots of track time... none of their drivers in danger of not being able to renew their license.