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Are we in for a tough 04 season?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by tifosi12, Dec 12, 2003.

  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The Mc Laren is going like gangbusters. Fixed the issues from the never raced 18 and made 19 a rocket on wheels. Also the new parts of the Williams (rear half) are working nicely. And the Renault is getting better each day.

    Whereas our boys got nothing but frustration out of the tire tests in Jerez. Let's hope the new Ferrari will kick ass.

    At any rate, 04 has all the potential for a cliffhanger season. Good!
     
  2. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    The 03 car was a handling disaster, and on several track, Ferrari could not move the ballast weight far enough forward for the desired balance. The 04 car will not repeat this mistake.

    On the other hand, the 03 car was farther infront of the 03 car based on lap times at Fiorano than the 03 was ahead of the 02 car.

    Its probably time for the dual clutch transmissions to make their debut.
    Its early enough that Bridgestone will be tuning the tires to the Ferrari.
     
  4. BrentC

    BrentC Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2003
    278
    I don't see how '04 can be anything but tough for Ferrari. A season like '02 will not come along again for them for a long, long time. These things seem to go in waves - remember Williams in '96-'97, then McLaren in '98-'99. Ferrari have had 5 years of constructor's championships & 4 driver's championships in a row. Not likely they'll be able to keep that momentum.

    I hate to see their dominance end, and hope the next drought isn't as long as the last one. And I'm keeping my fingers crossed for them!
     
  5. aventino

    aventino Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2003
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    I hope they get their ass kicked for the first half of the season, mid field, the odd 4th place. Get on with the job without *****ing, get better and come back from the count to pick up the Championship by a point in the last race.

    And Rubens this time. And when his car is running better he doesn't have to give it up to the control freak. In comparison to Williams and McLaren the Ferrari approach to having two drivers is crap.
     
  6. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    The beauty of F1 racing is that we will never really know each car's true potential until the season gets under way. It seems that the McLarens and the Williams will have a real serious package for '04, and let's not forget the Renalt with its new V-10 engine and a new car for that reason. All these are not accounting in the fact that Toyota is just lurking within the striking distance as well, even know it has not yet won a F1 race, most of the team principles, including the Big Fours are most concern about the potential of Team Toyota. And can we really forget about Honda? With all that being said, I would believe, hope and trust that Team Ferrari is making the same type of advancement in their '04 car as well. It would be nice and a little more reasuring if they are already running the new cars, but let us not forget that the Senna was winning races with his car right out of the box. With a solid foundation and still the best driver in Mr. M. Schumacher (At least until proven otherwise), Ferrari should still be very strong when the season starts. I think the F2003-GA was a good car, the flaw was within the Tyres which are the kind of things that can happen when you have more than one tyre supplier within the sport. And I still feel that the '03 Championship was somewhat articificially made closer than it would have been, can't say that I am a fan of the new qualifying rule and am definitely not crazy about the scoring system, Kimi with one race victory should not be able to compete with Michael's 6 victories. With all that, let us not forget about the rule changes that will occur this year, more specifically the one engine rule, that is going to make a lot of people going sleepness at night. Now, back to what may be ahead in F1 for 2004, it is anyone's guess. It has the potential to be wide open, and it also has the potential to be a complete blow out. We will just have to wait and see.....regardless the outcome, I will always be a Tifosi. Sorry about the long reply, thank you for letting me share my thoughts on this subject.
     
  7. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Good point about the rule change in regards to the engine. Norbert Haug from Mercedes said their new engine will at least keep the same revs as the one from 2003, which was to be expected. People thought for reliability's sake the revs would come down.

    Based on what we have seen in testing in Jerez, it looks yet again like a tire war with Michelin still having the upper hand. That will hurt Ferrari and Sauber for which otherwise I would forecast a great season, the car now being half a Ferrari and having some decent drivers.
     
  8. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    To be honest with you, I am not sure how reliable winter testings are anymore. I have been traumatized way too many times at the start of the season due to promising winter testings (i.e. Team Ferrari of the late 80's and 90's, especially the 1991 season with Prost). I think in a lot of ways, F1 is a sport just like NFL and NBA (Sorry, I am not a fan of NHL or MLB) a team may look great on paper, does great during pre-season and just roll over and dies when the season starts. So all I can say about the tyre issue is let us wait and see, hopefully for our sake, Bridgestone has at least caught up if not surpass. I think there just may be a more interesting soap-opera waiting in the wings for the '04 season. It is the whole JPM going to McLaren in '05 episode, that has got to be a factor for '04 as well. As in how much team support will JPM get knowing that he will be on the other side of the fence within a year. Williams has shown the ability to adapt in the past, winning championships even know perfectly well that their drivers (Mansell, Hill and Villeneuve) will be leaving at the end of the year. But this time, it is no longer just Williams that is calling the shots, we now also have BMW in the mix, who may be a little more protective of their techologies. And as for the one engine rule change, can't say I am too crazy about that either, afterall, we are of watching F1 , not endurance racing as in the case of sports cars (Group C). I think FIA is doing too much intervention just because Ferrari/Schumacher is dominating the sport. Let us not forget that McLaren and Williams were just as dominating in the 80's and in the 90's.
     
  9. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Anthony, mostly agreed, but a couple points to pick:

    - BMW already stated they're not nervous about JPM. Literally they said he won't know anything about the engine. And quite frankly I'm not surprised. I mean a driver knows everything about the setup of his car and can see what aero tricks have been used, but what driver ever gets to see or understand the technical details of what's inside the engine. All he can say that it feels more powerful etc. Not much of espionage going there. So I think this is all a bit of a mood point.

    - The idea of reusing the engines wasn't really pointed at Ferrari, but had the intent to reduce costs. Whether it will, remains to be seen (I tend to argue that it will cost even more to make a superfast engine also super durable).

    Reading the last two race reports in FORZA I was thinking however, what will happen once Ferrari meets its competitors again on DRY track? If it had not rained in Indy and Suzuka, we probably wouldn't have much to celebrate and so Ferrari looked better at the end of the season than they really were. Melbourne normally is warm and sunny.
    :(
     
  10. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    Cohensiveness within a team can be a very fragile thing, not to mention tricky to handle. Just a few years back, the whole Adrian Newey episode took apart three teams that were involved (Williams, McLaren and Jaguar) for the remaining of the season. As for driver input, I believe a driver has much more of a role than we think when it comes to the technical front. If you look back through racing history, most of the world champions has a great technical know how. On the engines alone, they have inputs on powerband and drivibility which are vital, and thats only the tip of the iceberg. I think it may be foolish to think that the year Schumacher spend with Benetton/Renault V10 was not helpful to the development of Ferrari V10 engine (The fact that the current day Ferrari team is composed of many member of that Benetton didn't exactly hurt either).
    As for the one engine rule, I think it is not a simple cost issue. As you know, the teams with the biggest wallets are the ones that are the most competitive (Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, Renault and Toyota). Think about how the rules has been changing accordingly through the years, remember the qualifying engines that are made to last just for a few laps or so? Instead of having the Big Four (Toyota is not there just yet) run away every year with the aid of their enormous budget, by limiting the cost, that also narrows the field just that much more. One of the reasons that there are testing bans these days is that the smaller teams don't have their own track nor do they have the ability to pay for the bills. This is why so many of the smaller teams are selling out to the big manufactures within the past 5 years or so, because they can no longer affort to go F1 Racing (Honestly, I have no idea how Jordan and Minardi manage to stay a float).
    I don't deny that rain had helped Ferrari in winning the 2003 Championship, but we are talking about the 2004 season. Just look at how Michellin leaped frog Bridgestone, and how Bridgestone toppled Goodyear a few years back, in the world of F1, anything can happen. Needless to say, that's why it is fun to be a fan and to be able to talk about it as we are now. As you know, if's and but's are somewhat meaningless in F1 racing, weather and just plain luck has a huge say in who wins the Championship and who looses. That's all part of racing.
     
  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson F1 World Champ
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    A "tough" year would be like 1993 (thank goodness those 1993 F1 Speedvision rebroadcasts are over ;)). They've got to run out of luck eventually (or the opposition has to get lucky occasionally), but I think they'll still be a 1st level team in 2004.
     
  12. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The toughest challenge this year will be the Bridgestones. Apparently they suck compared to the Michelins....
     
  13. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
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    I'm sure the F2004 will be a very very good car but just looking at the MP4-19 looks like Ferrari will have a serious contender. Last year Ferrari were always the fastest in top speed , now lets just hope it will the same next year but look out for the Williams in that department. Now what about Renault...yeah they're getting better each year and in which I find they have maybe the best chassis with great aerodynamics. Some people think Renault will be as strong as Ferrari, McLaren and Williams but I'm not sure if this will be the year.

    Note: Sauber getting Ferrari F2004 engine.
    http://www.f1racing.net/news.php?ID=66706
     
  14. Armand

    Armand Rookie

    Jan 11, 2004
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    I feel the 2002F1 was the best F1 car to come along in quite awhile.
    The 03F1GA appeared to be good at certain tracks, crapola at others.
    It looked large to me.
    I think we may be looking at smaller cars this year.

    Armand.
     

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