Arnage vs. Flying Spur

I would take that post with a generous dose of salt. Lots of broad strokes painted in there, not entirely accurate...at all

To the OP's dilemma -- it's not much of a question really. If you want a real Bentley, The Arnage is the only choice.
If you want a flippant luxury car that is essentially an A8L with a Bentley badge, then the Continental-series car are perfect fits.

 

FS is using floorpan,engine(turbocharged though) and other various pieces from Phaeton.
Nothing in common with A8 except the W12.

 

Bentley has been independent of RR since 98' have they not , are you sure of this ? On the real bentley post

"To the OP's dilemma -- it's not much of a question really. If you want a real Bentley, The Arnage is the only choice.
If you want a flippant luxury car that is essentially an A8L with a Bentley badge, then the Continental-series car are perfect fits. "

the '02 Bentley is a Series two , a VW product no ?
SDR

 

I would agree on that re the Arnage.
I'm told in the USA that the early Arnage BMW powered cars have a collectable following?

 

RR is owned by BMW,Bentley by VW and VW contributed to the design (and parts sharing) of the Continental series.
Arnage improvements were also VW contribution.

 

I doubt that,their selling prices certainly do not show their desirability.
6.75 liter V8 suits that car much better anyway....

 

I don't doubt that,but I understand the early motor is more Cosworth then BMW?

 

Yes, the Flying Spur is the better car when it comes to speed, reliability technology and so on. But it really is not a true Bentley in comparison to the Arnage. Really the only Bentley qualities it has are the badges and having everything covered in leather, other wise it offers the same driving experience as a Audi A8 W12. The car is pretty much completely VW designed. The Arnage however uses the same 6.75 TT V8 thats has been around for decades. It drives and feels like the old school British luxury car. Now those qualities may sound bad, but they make driving the car an experience.

So...

In conclusion, if your looking a daily driver, get the Spur without a doubt, but if you are looking for something to use once in a while, or on occasions or to just experience Bentley and Bentley ownership, get the Arnage, without a doubt.

-Steve

 

It's allll about your view of what Bentley is to you. For many it's the Arnage, and the cringe-worthy depreciation that goes along with it. I find it difficult to believe anyone who's spent any measurable time in both vehicles can successfully argue that the Arnage is the better of the two.

You'll note that many who attack the Flying Spur here do so not on the grounds of its drivability or features, but because of the question of it being a "true Bentley." Perhaps the one place the Flying Spur can't live up to the Arnage...

 

My understanding is that the Green Label Arnage is powered by the 4.4L V8 straight out of the E39 540, with a turbo system developed by Cosworth. Problem is that when the engine was fitted to the Bentley, it required the fuel pumps to be relocated. The optimal place was not chosen... let's just say the car has a tough time starting out on hills

Absent is correct... to my knowledge, there is absolutely no "following" for the Green Label cars here... more of a phobia.

Was it only North America that got the Greens?

 

Few down under .

 

Spot on. For some, the Flying Spur is a better choice... for others, it's the Arnage. Having owned both, the FS is the one I prefer because it's more modern looking/driving, it's AWD, and the prices of used ones seems to have leveled off. I want a nice daily driver, and the Spur fits that need.

If cost (read depreciation) wasn't a concern, I'd buy a new Mulsanne. I'll wait a few years and get one for half price instead.

 

the new Mulsanne is the Arnage replacement wont it be kinda similar ? Asking......I don't know enough about the Mulsanne .
SDR

great thread btw

 

Sort of, Mark. The W12, as you noted, was shared although without the turbos which were added for the Bentley.
The Transmission is shared though, the ZF 6HP26A was shared between all three.
The floorpan, the so-called D1 design though shared by the FS with the Phaeton, is only different from the A8's D3 floorpan in material. It had conventional steel bodysheel whereas the D3 used the all-aluminum spaceframe. But otherwise, not so different.

He was referring to Phaeton, not Phantom.
The '02 Bentleys (not sure why you picked that year) were under VW ownership at that time but the Arnage (a 1999-forward model year car) was produced in conjunction with Rolls as their last effort together. The MY '04 Continental GT was the first real infusion of VW.

This is getting much closer to the point I've been trying to underscore. The FS, while a fabulous car in its own right, is no Arnage.
Which would make a better daily driver? Probably the FS, to tell the truth. It has more horsepower, more VW/Audi-injected reliabillity, is more parking-friendly, less conspicuous and easier to get parts. But on that rationale, why stop there? Why not an S-class, Lexus-LS, Toyota Avalon, Corolla, and you see the spiral down.

The FS is mass-produced, German-engineered.
The Arnage is hand-built, rare, and uses a British50-year-old "tweaked" 6.75liter V8 with tons of low-down torque at effortless engine speeds. Perfect waftability for a large, heavy 4-door.

Depreciation is one of the stupidest points that can be raised if you're buying a Bentley or Rolls or Ferrari or etc... Never a wise financial investment, but almost always a good personal reward. Know the difference.

The Mulsanne is the Arnage's replacement. The FS's will come probably in '12 or '13 as the new Conti GT is coming out next year.

I doubt bagpipes and regalia will greet its arrival though.

 

I'm really curious about that car,all the pleasures (waftability and all) of the Arnage,without it's quirks.....
Have you driven one yet?

 

A Mulsanne? Not yet. Dying to get my mitts on one.

 

I mean, really? I can get into a ten-year-old Arnage in the $30-$40k range. These things were $230-$240k new, and then some. Yes, cars lose value, but a $20k a year loss is mind-numbing. For the 360 to have lost at that rate, it would have to be in the low $20k range at this point. Yikes.

You're a Bentley purist - no harm in that. But have you driven the freaking cars?? Me basing a portion of my argument on depreciation is a lot more sensible than you basing yours on the Arnage being 'pure.'

 

I tend to find the knowledge that I paid half (or less in the scenario Doug mentioned) of what a car listed at new only a couple years ago to be personally rewarding. It's the proverbial icing on the cake... driving a fantastic car that you know you got a great deal on. Obviously 99% of car purchases aren't wise investments, but there's really no reason to loose your ass on them either. Just because someone has the money to take the depreciation hit, doesn't mean they should.

 

great post....I chose the 02' Bentley because I read that was a heavily revised model , hence the series 2 moniker...Your point on then why not a MB.... Toyota....Great ! It really solidifies the point of a Bentley, well said . Kudos
SDR

 

gotta agree getting a 02' Arnage T for $40k with little difference to a 09' beside $200k excites the hell out of me! Did the same thing with the Wives' Landrover ,there is no secondary market for these vehicles , just don't ask about maintenance $ 100 for wipers ! that's knockoffs - not even factory , and you can't get them at Walmart either
SDR

HEY if u got pics put em up!

 

Yes, I've driven the freaking cars. I'm more of a Rolls guys actually, driven every model made since the Silver Cloud II -- some cases quite a lot.
Had substantial face-time in just 4 Bentleys, but 2 Arnages were among them.

Doug, you are aware luxury cars depreciate -- rapidly. The more money one lists for, the more it will depreciate. (Bring out the F40s, and Z8s and Porsche this, that and the other if you like) But it's tried and true.
Wringing your hands about how much your "special car/ dream car" will be worth in 5-10 year residual value is asinine and makes your decision an economic one and renders enthusiasm out of the equation quite.
If you truly believe that caring more about a specialty car's long-term value is more important than its pedigree, well then my friend, I hear Hyundai is trying to carve out their niche in the luxury market.

Let's get specific.
Let's take your 30-40k Arnage -- clearly this will be a '99 Green-label or '00 Red-label with higher miles. Ok, so we start with the village bicycle Arnage ('cause everyone's had a ride) that's been through 8 owners, may not have all options, etc. But anyway, say you get one for that, fair enough.
Yes, if the car was ~240k when new in '99, that lost 200k in 12 model years (1999-2010) that's about $16,700 / year up to current. That means it's worth 16.6% of its original sticker. Here's a band-aid.
Also, let's take a car that was around $40k MSRP brand-new in 1999, say a new BMW 528i was certainly low 40s, we'll say 42k sticker. What's a comparative upper-mileage 1999 528i going to be worth now? $4,500...on a good day? That's 10.7% of its original sticker. Hmm. Vexing... Luxury cars will lose the lion's share of their value someday? Someone ought to tell us.

Let me drive this point home between our little Arnage and Flying Spur tussle, though.

A guy could now pick up an '03 Mercedes CL600 coupe (that's twin-turbo 5.5L V12, 496 horsepower) for high teens -- they stickered for around 130k.
Same guy could now get an '03 E320 sedan for low 10s. 12,13ish. They were 45k when new. Umm, so based on their values held, does that make the E320 the oh-so-obviously better Mercedes? And the guy with the CL600, well he doesn't really know cars, he just has more money than sense? It couldn't have anything to do with the car being extremely rare, exclusive, and presenting higher maintenance costs having an effect on their values, could it?

 

Oh heck, i'll jump in the waters on this. As a point of reference, am not a purist here and simpky desire a car that can be driven daily rain/shine/snow without being a PIA like certain exotics and overpriced parts made of unobtanium.

Exactly! For those of us who drive the car daily in the sun, rain, and yes snow may prefer the newer FS (or CGT in my case). Less expensive TCO, excellent build quality and easier to source parts score big here versus other models (or even a Ferrari/A.Martin of course).

Looked into the CL65, decided the interior was rubbish as compared to the CGT. Well, perhaps not rubbish, yet Bentley is far and away better than the Mercedes. The S-Class is nice, yet still no Bentley with stunning leather and wood craftsmenship. Metal bits are metal and very, very little plastic in the Bently.

UGH!!!!!! Now that interior IS rubbish for those seeking high quality and style!

Why not just mention a Hyundai. Sure Hyundai are now making some impressive upper quality cars, yet Bentley quality they are most assuredly not.

While i admire purists and thank goodness for them as they keep the original blooline/DNA of a manufacturer going due to their financial support (read: sales), we each may choose a different path depending on usage and preferences.

If we really want to talk about Bentley DNA, then one may need to go many decades back before a Bentley was basically a RR.

 

I have an 03 Arnage T, and has a 2000 base model before this one. The T model is worlds apart and well worth the price difference. My car cutrrently has just under 30k miles , all of the idiot lights have been on for the past two years. I turn the check engine light off every oil change but it comes back.The computer says some sort of tranny sensor, dealer quoted $850 for the sensor. There is the main problem with these cars, the parts are stupid expensive and very few cross reference to BMW, Audi, VW or anything else. The clock spring in my steering wheel was stupid money but it was the only way to get rid of the SRS light.
All of the gripes on the table, the car is a ball to drive. Its crazy fast , I have to turn off the traction control just so I can really enjoy the boost. The leather work in the T is beautiful, and I think the engine turned parts on the dash are pretty cool. I only use the car for road trips or night out with two couples. I much prefer it to the Flying Spur which I borrowed from the dealer for a weekend. If you are going to go all out and get a Bentley sedan, go all out and get the Arnage. The Spur really feels like the second banana of the family.

 

tiara4300 great post ! This thread has some great opinions , starting to feel like a a cheer leader....GO Bentley !!
sdr

 

Don't use 1999 models - they're essentially fully depreciated and the comparison doesn't work. A 1999 Civic would hold up about the same. Here's the '03 Arnage next to a car you brought up above.

Average price of a 2003 Bentley Arnage on AutoTrader: $71,000.
New price of a 2003 Bentley Arnage: $250,000. (probably more)
28%

Average price of a 2003 Lexus IS300 on AutoTrader: $11,316.
New price of a 2003 Lexus IS300: $30,800.
36%

Arnage has one of the steepest depreciation cuves of any car on the road - and far and away the most total value lost, except for perhaps the Maybach. And where are you finding 1999 528s for $4500? Average on AutoTrader is $7k...