Arrangement with dealership: When will Ferrari stop making 812 Superfast? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Arrangement with dealership: When will Ferrari stop making 812 Superfast?

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by gowthamn, Jan 20, 2020.

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  1. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I totally agree with you I have the same opinion. Happy with my 812 which i consider to be a long term keeper. For a bit less weight , a bit more power, a GPF and a lot more money i’ll stick to my 812 and that another reason why i think pre gpf 812 will be appreciated in the long term
     
    Lagunae92, KenU, JTSE30 and 5 others like this.
  2. Hex

    Hex Karting

    May 1, 2009
    95
    ^^^^^^^^^ This
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  3. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,586
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Agree totally if it is a minimal effort redux. But if its a blend of Monza body materials and F12TdF edginess with a +10k rpm NA V12 then it will be fought over like a hypercar and be a must have in every serious Ferrari collection. Of course, those feature are conjecture on my part based on some of the posts here.

    For me, I remember during LdM the promise of ending out the F12 flagship V12 series with an ultimate expression - a marvel of performance and technology. I don't think the F12TdF was enough of a leap especially with just 38 hp increase although they did get well over $1M for them. They also produced the 812 models off the same chassis and engine base and none of them are LE or VS versions so still waiting for the promise to be fulfilled. The lust for such a car far exceeds the Wuhan impact IMO. I guess we shall see. :)
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  4. GameMaker

    GameMaker Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 17, 2014
    443
    WA State
    First off the SF90 is like attaching a VCR to a television. Eventually the VCR breaks, or DVDs come out and you have a boat anchor.

    Hybrid motors, batteries, extra weight, extra complexity, I'm just not seeing it personally.

    Whether or not Ferrari makes more naturally aspirated V12s the F12 and 812 are super special cars that will be lauded in the future as some of the best examples of this era of automobiling.

    I'm hanging on to mine no matter what the market does, but at the end of the day these cars are for driving.
     
  5. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    Fyi i was told today Ferrari already stopped production of the 812 SF to focus on GTS
     
  6. deltona

    deltona Formula 3

    Aug 7, 2009
    1,386
    UK
    Full Name:
    Justin
    It would be good to get some clarity on this. Maybe Marcel can help?
     
  7. Napoli

    Napoli Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2017
    958
    Full Name:
    NOYB, Ray!
    I have an 812 SF in production now.
     
  8. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    They can still be working on previous orders but not taking any new order
     
  9. TWCC

    TWCC Karting

    Apr 27, 2020
    56
    that's the only sensible thing they can do for everybody, also not sure that at this point there would be any new orders anyways
     
  10. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I agree they should cut production
     
  11. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    I would think it premature for Ferrari to decide to reject orders of any sort in the current climate - they may be confident but it would be wiser to wait for a few weeks to see how things unfold when the global economy goes out of its freezing; then they could make more informed decisions.
     
  12. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    This what i heard from someone in the motor industry. That being said I’m sure you are aware Ferrari have already had lots of cancellations of orders including the SF even before Covid19.
     
  13. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    Not to mention the numbers of cars sitting unsold with dealers at discounts. imo they should cut production irrespective of covid19 there has been ( and that is a view shared by several i know) an oversupply in some markets.
     
  14. Napoli

    Napoli Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2017
    958
    Full Name:
    NOYB, Ray!
    Except you said “stopped production.” :rolleyes:
     
    kane00 likes this.
  15. gliazzurri

    gliazzurri Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2016
    326
    Maryland
    Why would they stop production on the top tier 12 cylinder given the more premium element of the model? As some others have noted, wouldn't that be the one to carry on with?
     
  16. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I think whoever told me that maybe meant stopped taking orders as I said I heard that today like always when ferrari stops taking orders there is still a bit of time during which they finish building current orders. So let’s rephrase maybe what I said to “Ferrari stopped taking orders on the 812SF whike they complete the very last orders” again this is what I was told so anyone with more visibility please that would be welcome
     
  17. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
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    Because they had lots of cancellations of orders on that segment, people have cancelled orders because they don’t want to lose over 100 thousand from the moment they take delivery of the car, because there are lots of cars that aren’t selling , dealers aren’t taking them in part exchange anymore or they do at ridiculous prices, and finally because this is not imo in Ferrari’s long term interest to see their asssets depreciate so quickly, lose confidence from their clientbase at a risk of potentially damaging the brand long term. I bet you if they were releasing another v12 premium margin car now their profitability would bet far less after the oversuppy that caused such a big depreciation in the last 12/18 months. That’s my personal opinion but I may be wrong..
     
  18. gliazzurri

    gliazzurri Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2016
    326
    Maryland
    I'm with you on the idea. But if they are cancelling orders on the 812SF, then they will cancel orders on the 812GTS, all predicated on loss of money (which I think is strange if you already have had interest in the car). So then they shouldn't make 812GTS as well since not many people will want them just the same. So that can't be the exclusive issue then. I'm sure some people may not want it, but there are others who do for sure. Just my opinion and I appreciate your point of view for sure. I'd be interested to hear what your contacts continue to say--please keep us informed...
     
  19. TWCC

    TWCC Karting

    Apr 27, 2020
    56
    simple...it's supply and demand......SF endless supply 0 demand.....GTS no supply still (some) demand.....yes people are cancelling orders on GTS but there are still people that want it....SF nobody wants it, not even at 30% discount from new that's why dealers are chocking on SFs
     
  20. gliazzurri

    gliazzurri Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2016
    326
    Maryland
    I hear your point. I just think an essentially two year run on that sort of vehicle is odd but we’ll see. I’d be interested. Who knows maybe I will...
     
  21. TWCC

    TWCC Karting

    Apr 27, 2020
    56
    you need to look at quantities....in the UK we now have more 812 than F12s (378 vs 376)....in 2019 F pushed 272 !! cars into the market....it took 5 years for the F12 to get to the level the 812 got to in 2 years...that's why the SF is such a disaster....and more SF cars are still coming and then we have the GTS coming...just shows the level of mismanagement
     
    montpellier likes this.
  22. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    Agreed you explained it well! This is why F12 prices in the UK have been pushed down so quickly as well. While demand for the SF was initially very strong F just ended up selling too quickly and more than they should have. Now i don’t think many more will come to the market and those that will come like the GTS will have GPF. Which means whoever wants one of the last na v12 will need to turn to the second hand market. The market is now clearly saturated in 812/F12 and will take a bit of time for cars to absorbed by the market. Good examples will sell and eventually when people realise this is likely the end of an era of na v12 and hybrids come demand should firm up. In the meantime Enzo’s rule of supplying 1 car less than the market demands wasn’t obeyed at least here in the UK. Finally maybe F supplied lots to the UK/EU because they new it was going to be a short cycle and they would need to switch to gpf cars in EU to meet new regulations and wanted to meet revenue targets in europe in a shorter oeriod of time. I bet the supply of SF in the USA is much lower and prob lower than the supply of F12 was, happy to hear from some USA people...
     
    JTSE30 likes this.
  23. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
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    Passione
    Now when you see such a level of mismanagement it makes people reconsider their decision to buy new cars and take the risk of F oversupplying the market. I’m curious to see how strong denand will be for the 812 replacement which will likely cost more money. Some people clearly learned their lessons and would rather buy. Good spec F12/812 than a brand new ( hybrid + gpf) car on which they will lose a lot. That could be good news for the second hand narket in the next 12/18 months. Personal opinion
     
  24. wrs

    wrs F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 11, 2015
    11,921
    Lakeway, Texas
    Full Name:
    William
    So I got a decent trade on my 488 and didn't take a bath getting into the 812 because of the lockdown. My car arrived during the 2nd week of the lockdown and the dealer gave me $250k for my 2018 488 Spider with a $319k spec. I would have probably been lucky to get $225k otherwise. I think the market will eventually absorb the cars and Ferrari will end up producing a lot less cars this year and that will also help balance the market. I won't feel much pain until I sell the 812 which may not be for years now and then the deprecation may balance out.

    Cars are a lot like oil, you can't just stop producing them overnight and if you aren't able to sell them then they stack up. I know they are stacking up everywhere like oil so the car business is in as much trouble as the oil business. However, if people start living normal lives again, the oversuply can get worked down in both areas. The problem the car manufacturers have is product cycles that are too short. I think RR has a decent life cycle on theirs but most other companies are too busy changing things from year to year just to make the cars a little different. These cars are having much too short a life cycle for what they cost.

    It's too bad no one wants these cars as they are really the best Ferrari I have owned to date, including the 488 Spider.
     
  25. mepassione

    mepassione Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2019
    932
    Full Name:
    Passione
    I don’t disagree with having owned an F12 and 812 the 812 is a phenomenal car and I think no one will disagree with that. The reason people dont want them is i think because too many have been sold already so you need to find new buyers. Plus a lot of people are realising that there far more supply than demand and that removes some of the exclusivity factor which affects desirability hence why I think F damaged their own brand somehow. Finally prospective buyers aren’t moving because they have the opinion price keep going down and are waiting for better entry points pricewise hence why F12/812 are saturated. What could make things move is for people to realise that production reduces/stops, some clarity from F on the future cars( hybrids/turbos) making those cars more desirable because no longer made. And dealers need to stop that game of “buy a portofino plus a lusso plus a 488 to get a pista” when that pista wont sell either. Exclusivity and trust are also important factors that come into play when people buy expensive supercars for them to be exclusive and knowing they are in high demand. No one wants to spend 400k+ on a car to be told nobody wants to buy them at 30% discount.
     

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