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Artcurial Retromobile auction

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by ColdWater, Feb 10, 2009.

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  1. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    #1 ColdWater, Feb 10, 2009
    Results have been posted: http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/results.asp

    54 automobiles, 34 not sold

    8 Ferraris, 7 not sold

    The Matra 650 was a screaming bargain (literally) at Euros 1.49 mm with premium

    But a Mille Miglia scarf went for four times the high estimate. Go figure.
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    #2 Napolis, Feb 10, 2009
    That Matra is pretty cool. Bit scary the # of NS.
     
  3. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,186
    #3 WCH, Feb 10, 2009
    I saw the results by lot number, but couldn't find a lot list. I take it the ex Prince Bernhard 212 Inter was a no-sale? Did the Alfa prototype sell? Thanks.
     
  4. WilyB

    WilyB F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 23, 2007
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    #4 WilyB, Feb 10, 2009
    36 ALFA ROMEO 33 TT 3 Litri sport Prototipi 1972 N° de série : AR11572 * 010* Moteur : #0075, 8 cylindres en V à 90°, bloc et culasses en -- Unsold
     
  5. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    #5 ColdWater, Feb 10, 2009
    Go to the archive search area on the Artcurial website (http://www.artcurial.com/en/asp/archivesearch.asp) and you can either see the lot list on your browser or download the whole catalog as a PDF. Nice feature. If you go to the sales / results area you can obtain descriptions and sales prices.

    Neither car sold. I thought the pre-sale estimates generally looked reasonable, and the lots that did sell were typically within the range. There seems to be more than a little weakness at the upper end of the market.
     
  6. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    Sep 7, 2004
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    Edwin K. Niles
    #6 Ed Niles, Feb 10, 2009
    If I'm correlating things correctly, only the "Queen" sold, for $89000. Ouch!
     
  7. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    #7 ross, Feb 10, 2009
    wow, thats an awful ratio. am surprised. i met the director of artcurial at the bonhams sale in gstaad and his comment then was that he was going to make sure the consignors in paris had a realistic notion of the market....guess not....or maybe the market got more 'real' than they had anticipated.
     
  8. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    Mar 16, 2003
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    #8 WCH, Feb 10, 2009
    Thank you.

    Second NS in twelve months for the 212, I believe.
     
  9. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
    621
    bicoastal USA
    #9 ColdWater, Feb 10, 2009
    Yes indeed, #0139 offered 31 August 08 at Royal Car Auction, Het Loo. Presale there was Euro 400 - 450k, but even in the prince's own country it only reached Euro 345k. Not my favorite PF shape.

    Sure like that Matra, though. Stood next to that car in the paddock at Watkins Glen in '69. Pardon the heresy, but nothing screams like a Matra.
     
  10. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    5,186
    #10 WCH, Feb 10, 2009
    I am interested in the 212, admittedly, because I own another of the 212 Inter Pininfarinas. Perhaps the serial number restamp has adversely affected value? Perhaps the styling is an acquired taste? Has the car ever received the sympathetic mechanical restoration discussed in a prior post about the car?

    Anyway, I agree about the Matra. Must have been amazing to see it at the Glen.
     
  11. WilyB

    WilyB F1 Rookie
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    #11 WilyB, Feb 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was at Le Mans in '72 and the sound - particularly at night - of the Matra V12s down the Hunaudière was pure music to my ears.

    My plebeian roots shall admit though that Mademoiselle Beaumont Corvette sounded not bad, but in a different way! :)
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  12. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    #12 Napolis, Feb 10, 2009
    The engine he heard at the Glen is a different tipo.
     
  13. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

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    #13 ColdWater, Feb 10, 2009
    MS650 at the Glen in '69, MS670 at Le Mans in '72, but I think the engines were in the same family - 3L V-12.

    Don't think much has been done to the Prince Berhardt car. At the other end of the PF 212 spectrum, Mario Bernardi offers the Rosselini/Bergman car in extremely nice condition for just under Euro 800k. Sorry for the lack of enthusiasm about the PF design; I'd love to have a 212, but preferably certain Vignale or Ghia cars. At least we can agree about the Abbott (0165EL), no ?
     
  14. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    Mar 16, 2003
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    #14 WCH, Feb 10, 2009
    "Mario Bernardi offers the Rosselini/Bergman car in extremely nice condition for just under Euro 800k. Sorry for the lack of enthusiasm about the PF design; I'd love to have a 212, but preferably certain Vignale or Ghia cars. At least we can agree about the Abbott (0165EL), no ?"


    No offence taken, I agree some of the 212 Inter Vignales are stunning, IMO more beautful than any of the Pininfarina cars. I like the Rosselini/Bergman car, but it was also a NS recently, wasn't it? 0263 also is a beautiful example, and I'm told the owner still drives the car.

    The Abbott! What were they thinking?

    Cheers, Will
     
  15. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
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    #15 ColdWater, Feb 10, 2009
    Yes, #0265EU was NS at RM Maranello in May 2008, with pre-sale estimate of Euro 650 - 800k. Wouldn't mind owning this one myself as I think the color choice is perfect, but as the market keeps going down Mario's asking price keeps going up !

    Best, Don
     
  16. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
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    #16 dretceterini, Feb 11, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2009
    Correct. Like Ferrari did, one version of the Matra engine had the injectors between the cams, and the other version had the spark plugs between the cams and the injectors between the left and right cylinder heads.
     
  17. ColdWater

    ColdWater Formula Junior

    Aug 19, 2006
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    #17 ColdWater, Feb 11, 2009
    AFAIK MS630 of '68 had injectors between the cams while the MS640 through MS670 of subsequent years had them within the V, thus '69 and '72 cars were the same configuration.
     
  18. trkevin

    trkevin Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    K. Blommaert
    #18 trkevin, Feb 11, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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