Aryton Senna's toughest opponent

Maybe twice world kart champion Peter Koene from The Netherlands?

 

i even found a picture of him.
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And the video:

http://retroracer.multiply.com/video/item/16/Rissington_Old.flv

 

He and Martin Brundle had one hell of battle, and Prost was a formidable opponent as well.

 

See this link re. Fullerton's reaction to the Senna film: http://www.grandprix.com/columns/maurice-hamilton/senna-revisited.html

 

Schumacher beat him in 94. Which was quite unexpected as everybody thought Senna would cruise to his 4th title given the Williams supremacy combined with Senna's super talent.

But then there was this German rookie and that Benetton team. A team named after a clothing manufacturer. I mean c'mon! What's next a WDC winning team named after a refreshment drink?

I was a huge MS fan at the time (and I never liked Senna to begin with) and Michael clearly was the underdog in that season. Yet he beat him right from the start. Granted, Senna had some very bad luck in the first races and that got him under enormous pressure. I thought that MS had no chance in maintaining the lead he established and was sure that eventually the maestro would just zoom by. Even if Senna didn't have the horrible crash, it would have been an incredible season where it's anybody's guess who would have won in the end.

 

uhm... no. You could argue that Schumacher beat Hill in 1994, but surely not that he beat Senna.

 

First you need to finish before you can finish first.

Brazilian GP
Qualifying:
1 Senna
2 MS
Race
1 MS
Senna spun off

Pacific GP
Qualifying:
1 Senna
2 MS
Race
1 MS
Senna accident

San Marino GP
Qualifying:
1 Senna
2 MS
Race
we know that story

So Senna controlled MS in qualifying, no surprise he was at that time the king of poles. However MS beat him based on race finish.

As I said, I was surprised to see Michael ahead of Senna in the points and thought it was only a matter of time. But I'm not so sure anymore. Senna was getting older and the Williams wasn't the wunderkind of cars everybody thought it was. Plus Benetton had a few tricks up their sleeves...

 

Well yes, if you count beating a dead man. He beat him in 2 races and technically at San Marino too, but we're getting kinda morbid here.

 

1994 Brazilian GP to me was an incredible race and saw Senna soundly defeated by schumy and the allegedly traction controlled benetton. When senna spun
-in brazil no less- trying to catch schumy I was stunned and began wondering if I was witnessing a changing of the guard...sadly we were deprived of what would have been a classic season.

 

Couldn't have said it any better.

The F1 snake was stripping itself of another layer of skin. It happens at least every ten years.


CRG125: You should have spelled Ayrton's name correctly.

 

Where was Damon Hill in qualifying and races in those first 3 races of 1994? Quite a bit further back until the Williams was honed as the car had a very fundamental issue at the time, Williams had forgotten how to design a Passive Car. Regardless, we will never know what would have happened after Imola. But if you look at 1993 when Senna was IMHO at the peak of his game, I can't see him falling off that dramatically in 1994. I think there were other issues involved with that Williams. In fact, I think Senna put on a terrific drive in Brazil and was catching Schumacher in the Benetton, when he spun off. Just my 2 cents.

 

I know the feeling: anything pre 79 and I'm clueless



...some here say that's even true post 79

 

It's almost unfair to compare '94 MS with a '94 Senna. I think Senna in his prime was the best! (man those are STRONG words coming from me) I so PRO Ferrari. But it's my opinion.

 

Armen, in my opinion Senna was in his prime in 93 and 94 (just by comparing his qualifying performance against Damon Hill who had been with Wiliams). The first race he spun off after leading and being passed in the pits by Schumacher who we later learned had an illegal Fuel Filter and therefore speeded up his Fuel Stop. The second race he got hit at the first corner and we know what happened at Imola, so all of sudden thinking Senna lost it because he spun in one race (Brasil) does not mean he lost he plot.

What Senna did in the 93 McLaren -CUSTOMER FORD against Schumacher should not go unnoticed as well. I agree that after he died he passed the mantle to Michael.

 

Was Prost his team mate for some years. He regularly beat Senna.

 

I went to the first Canadian screening of Senna yesterday and the director was there for Q&A. He told us that the previous night he was in London for a screening where there were a bunch of Senna's mechanics, Jackie Stewart, Prof Watkins, and Terry Fullerton showed up. Kinda cool if you ask me.

On the subject of opponents, statistics are often shrouded by politics and circumstance so I always find it interesting to hear the first hand account of who someone thinks was a special opponent. Ask Mario Andretti who is the 'BEST' he ever raced against and he will tell you 'Don Branson'. Let the Google searches begin.

 

In the 141 races where they competed here are the results:

Finishes - Prost 111, Senna 101
Poles - Senna 60, Prost 23
Wins - Prost 41, Senna 37
Podiums - Prost 88, Senna 73
In the points - Prost 102, Senna 88

When they were teammates:

Finishes - Prost 28, Senna 23
Poles - Senna 26, Prost 4
Wins - Senna 14, Prost 11
Podiums - Prost 26, Senna 18
In the points - Prost 27, Senna 20

One championship each.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

The Benneton was dead illegal and the Williams wasn't good at the start of the season, it needed time to be sorted out as Hill showed later that season...

As an aside, I'm pretty sure in another Senna documentary, A Start Named Ayrton Senna, it's the very same Terry Fullerton that said that the day after he beat Senna to the world karting championship he was horsing around by the pool with one of his mechanics and Senna came out of nowhere and pushed him into the pool....Senna started to smile a bit after that...

 

MS was about to begin beating Senna regularly (hell he already was), Senna was on the tail end of his career when he passed, IMO. The guard hadn't changed yet, but it was about to.

 

The problem with this statement is what Senna did to Michael in 93 and what he would have done to him in 94 once the Williams was sorted and the FIA didn't have to fret about the Benetton's illegal systems and fuel filter fiasco. Had Senna lived and they discovered what they did, I am sure they would have thrown out Benetton from the FIA Championship instead of allowing them to run as MS was now the new King. if Damon Hill ran him down to one point, and he crashed Hill on purpose, imagine what Senna would have done to him?

As an aside, Benetton would have never gotten the Renault Engine in 1995 had Senna not died and the Williams (as witnessed by lesser drivers like D.Hill and J. Villeneuve winning the championship in 96 & 97) makes me think Senna had a few more championships, but we will never know. I agree at some point MS would have over taken him, but knowing Senna had that day come he would have already been ready to retire.

No disrespect to the OP on this thread, as the MS vs. Senna arguments been on many threads in the past, so this is just my humble opinion, and everything body has their own.

Let me say one last thing, having witnessed F1 since 1978, only four drivers have I seen that were without a doubt the best, in no particular order; Gilles Villeneuve, Alain Prost, Ayrton Senna, and Michael Schumacher.