Nine Teams attack Ferrari (again) FERRARI responds Ill just give you some of the good stuff: I do feel Ferrari have blocked themselves into a corner by going solo with their tires. They took the risk, reaped the benefits and now that the new rules arent working in their favor would like to break the rules. This smacks of hypocrisy to me as they were so against Minardi breaking the rules now apparently its ok for them. I also dont think theyre doing it because of just tire testing. I think it has to do with needing more testing time period. My personal relationship with Ferrari is beginning to be like my former relationship with JV. I really love them and want to support them but they keep giving me reasons not to.
There are no testing limits in the rules. If the 9 pygmies want to hobble themselves, so be it. The only rule that counts is the letter of the law, as evidenced by BAR's actions in Australia and the FIA's bewildered stance.
EXACTLY. And....who gives a rat's arse what the 9 dwarves think? It's sort of like politics: you can't conduct national policy by taking a vote among other countries. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I was under the impression Ferrari had agreed to the test limits and now is going back on it's word. If that's the case haven't they set rules themselves? Do these rules not matter? I think Ferrari's making a big mistake. It's just giving the other teams and manufacturers an even better reason for a break-away series as well as increasing that series possible fan base. "There is a small but voceriferous pro-Ferrari minority who criticize any stories which reflect the feedback we receive from other fans..." I guess that would be you.
Everyone is a critic. Always... always.... Ferrari is criticised. Too bad in a few years Ferrari will be joined by other real factory based (Mercedes, BMW etc.) teams and idiots like McLaren and Williams will race kit cars in Vietnam (now that will be cost effective)!
Lets see... Ferrari VS Honda,Toyota,Mercedes,BMW,Renault,McLaren,Williams,Sauber,Minardi,Red Bull, and BAR togeather....Who will win?....Who will win? Yes... Thats it! Ferrari!
A lot of people blame Tyre companies for the current state of F1, and many also believe that by having only one tyre supplier will save money. I for one does not agree, I like to see competition, innovation and creativity. I feel that there are too few tyre suppliers in F1. How much money do you think Michellin had spend so far for this year in testing? and compare that to Bridgestone? Ferrari purposed a limite on milage for each tyre company, which would truely limit what a tyre company can do and can spend with the testing. Needless to say, McLaren, Williams, Renault, Honda and Toyota will never agree with that as that would mean that they will all have to share the milages from Michellin as Ferrari will be the main team that will take the lion's share of testing with Bridgestone. However, the key thing is this, just as Jean Todt stated it, unless FIA puts it in the book, it is not a rule. Teams can not just come up with their own rules, no matter how many principles agrees to it. Teams are part of the participants that will have to follow the rules that are made by FIA. As much as I dislike what the FIA have done with the qualifying, the engine rules etc. they are still the governing body, at least until a breakaway series is created.
First of all, Ferrari never agreed to any testing limits. It has been consistent from day one. They did make a proposal that was based upon km, not days, and which was split between chassis miles and tyre miles. This makes sense since what is the point of saying x number of days limit if you have 4 different test teams at different tracks on the same day? It also makes sense because the other teams are able to coordinate a lot of tire testing for Michelin but Ferrari is alone in doing the devo work for Bridgestone (Minardi and Jordan are useless). Ferrari's logic is always impeccable and the braying of the other teams does not sway them because they all would slice Ferrari's throat in a heartbeat if they could. Fact of the matter is that the other teams rejected Ferrari's proposal so it's not that Ferrari won't agree to a limit, it's that there is a difference of opinion as to what that limit should be. Remember when Mclaren, back in 1999, figured out that Ferrari made a manufacturing mistake with their barge boards? Ferrari did poorly in the race where it was discovered so Mclaren sat on the info until Ferrari produced a 1-2 at the next race and then they protested AFTER THE RACE. These guys are basically pricks, first-rate cheaters and Jean Todt has a very long memory for these things, allied to an iron will. He will fight these f--ckers on and off the track all day long. And as far as the equal footing goes, let's see how well Mclaren or Williams does if they try to build their own engines at Paragon or Grove. Good luck. In this respect, both those teams are inferior to Toyota - don't even talk to me about comparing them to Ferrari. It's the cheating Brit "garagisti" against the Italians, just like always. How you can call yourself a constructor when you can't even build an engine is beyond me. What a bunch of clowns. I'll part with one last thing. Maclaren and Williams used to pride themselves on having a superior race-winning percentage (wins vs races and championships vs season participated). You don't hear about that anymore - ever wonder why? Do the stats: Ferrari is first in every categoy you can name except for wins by an engine constructor because for years Ford supplied half the grid. That will soon change if it hasn't already- I haven't checked.
At the end of the day the reason Ferrari and other car manufacturers participate in F1 is to create a positive image for their brand to sell their cars. If Ferrari (rightfully or wrongfully) is being perceived as a negative asset in F1, as an unfair player, the whole exercise becomes counterproductive. Therefore Ferrari has to care about its public image. As far as tires are concerned: I couldn't care less on what rubber any car runs. I'm a fan of a particular car or driver because of who they are, but absolutely not because of what rubber they're on. All that tire wars do in F1 is increase the speeds of the cars and thereby cause further rules to slow down the cars and bias the picture of the real performance. A standard hard compound tire would slow down the cars and create a even base for everybody on which to build their cars.
Couldn't agree with Tony more, that is the reason why I am a tifiso of the first order;nothing but respect for Ferrari, who've been in the game since Day One. McLaren, Williams, etc. are mere chassis builders. Even Renault had to buy an established team... PS-Ron Dennis is a b!tch...
agree with you both AND surprisingly for the first time on this board Maranelloman, I must be in the wrong parallel universe or sumpin Seriously Dave, Tony and 308 respect for Toyota but I imagine they will be gone in a year or two when they realise that unless they buy the rest of the Ferrari team and MS/RB they have no chance. They have gone for the sequel (RS) but we know the sequel is never as good as the original Renault are the worry here as they are HUGE and unless BMW and Merc take over the garagisti they will also just be also-rans. We dabbled with the garagisti brigade when we pleaded for that t**t Barnard to design the car and all we got was a smaller budget to play with while JB got a huge Swiss account lesson learnt, get the South Africans to design it, much better result. And classic308 has stated that great universal truism : Ron Dennis is a b!tch Cheers John
Well to be fair to McLaren and Williams (and the rest), Ferraris proposal wasn't exactly fair either. It gave them a serious advantage. Tires are not the only thing you test on the track. You test engine, chassis setup, aerodynamics, etc, etc. If the limit was imposed based on miles per tire or per engine, it's just as much of a hinderance to everyone except Ferrari as an across-the-board test limit is to everyone else (except Ferrari with their own track). There is probably some middle ground that can (should) be reached, but until then Ferrari is definitely getting a lot more from the current arrangment than the others. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be helping *cough* 14thplace *cough*
fromd grandprix.com It seems as if grandprix.com is making a point of rooting for the group of nine, and defending it against every comment that could even vaguely be considered a thread. I felt the need to leave them this note: I very well understand the point this Group Of Nine is trying to make. What I don't understand is, is that people (some of whom seem to have a job at grandprix.com) fail to see hypocrisy of it all. There is no member, whatsoever, in this group of nine that is even remotely interested in the sport. They are all interested in themselves. Right now, their interests are obviously collectively served by holding back Ferrari. Since there effectively aren't any testing-regulations, Ferrari is in their fullest of rights to test when and where they damn well please. Same goes for every other team. Fact of the matter is, that Michelin is supplying every F1team that matters, except Ferrari. They are gaining huge loads of data. Loads that Ferrari/Bridgestone will never achieve, not if they were doing 24/7 shifts. Yet this group of nine, feeling safe in the knowledge that they have this advantage on data and the fact that this data is now starting to translate in a better tyre, deems it necessary to get Ferrari cornered, knocking them for working their Italian asses of in order to have some useful data in comparison to Michelin. Again, not to favour the sport (the sport would be favoured by Ferrari mingling in the fight for the win, not trailing on position 10), but to exclude Ferrari as a competitor, so they have a bigger chance of winning.
