Aston-Martin St. Louis | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Aston-Martin St. Louis

Discussion in 'Midwest - USA (NE, KS, OK, MO, AR)' started by zxttfan, Sep 1, 2010.

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  1. zxttfan

    zxttfan Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2009
    482
    St. Louis
    Suntrup has made an offer to take on the franchise, but its tied up in bankruptcy right now. Jag/LR would have to approve them after they get everthing else straightened out.
     
  2. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    wonder why Plaza doesn't take them, if they already have LR.
     
  3. zxttfan

    zxttfan Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2009
    482
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    I would guess b/c they dont have the room. And Jag might require they have a stand alone facility. Then again I've seen jag/lr combined in the past.
     
  4. rollsorferrari?

    rollsorferrari? F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2006
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    plaza has always been upgrading and building new facilities, especially behind the main dealerships facing olive. last time i was in town i saw they added a fisker dealership
     
  5. Indigo

    Indigo Karting

    Dec 13, 2004
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    Land Rover will be moving into the Moore Jaguar dealership soon and out of the Plaza location. Kia will be moving into the LR location at Plaza.

    Moore gave up the Aston Martin and Jaguar dealerships because of financial problems. It's a long story but they are in the process of moving into the old Moore Nissan building at the corner of Clarkson and Manchester. The only problem is the city won't give him a permit to sell used cars out of there. As of 5pm today, they had to be out of the current location (The old Moore Jaguar).
     
  6. Indigo

    Indigo Karting

    Dec 13, 2004
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    And from what I have heard from numerous people, the reason why Ferrari hasn't come here is because of political BS..... I know, I know, it's shocking that Ferrari plays these games... But they are in the position that they can do whatever they want.
     
  7. Randy

    Randy Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2003
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    does anyone know the status of the lawsuit St. Louis Motorsport's filed against Ferrari?
     
  8. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    FNA ought to settle before discovery gets too far along. What I would expect to be in the complaint by StLM against FNA should be enough to get a settlement. Based upon what I have heard FNA should want this to become sealed information with non-disclosure clauses.

    Randy - Can you run a search for the filings?

    Jeff
     
  9. Chio

    Chio Karting

    Nov 1, 2005
    139
    STL
    Rover moving has been a rumor for about 15 years but has not happen! with Plaza for sale I do not see them selling off the brand.. plus they would not go into a dealer with "problems"
     
  10. Indigo

    Indigo Karting

    Dec 13, 2004
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    No longer a rumor. The old Moore Jaguar property was purchased for around $3 million if I remember right. Might be higher, can't remember off the top of my head.

    From what I understand, they're not selling off the brand, just moving it.
     
  11. Scuderia Santo Luigi

    Scuderia Santo Luigi Formula Junior

    Apr 18, 2010
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    #36 Scuderia Santo Luigi, Sep 30, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
    Really? Wow. Kia is building attractive cars these days, which is no coincidence since their current styling chief was previously at Audi. It doesn't seem like a natural fit for Plaza, though.
     
  12. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    If Plaza is indeed getting Kia, then they have well and truly given up.

    Is that dealership for sale, or is the parent company for sale?
     
  13. Scuderia Santo Luigi

    Scuderia Santo Luigi Formula Junior

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    It's hard to believe Plaza would take on Kia, but I suppose stranger things have happened.
     
  14. Randy

    Randy Formula 3

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    #39 Randy, Oct 10, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are the pleadings filed thus far. Not much and relatively new. I hope we get a Ferrari dealer here, although I'm not sure I would have put in the pleading that they knew they were getting the Ferraris in violation of the law. Also, I may feel bad if I were a Maserati owner. Oh well, I'll keep up on the suit now that I know how to look for the pleadings on the court's site.
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  15. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Randy, thanks for posting...lots of tasty tidbits in there :)
     
  16. zxttfan

    zxttfan Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2009
    482
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    A relative driving by the old Moore location saw a coming soon sign for Suntrup Kia, not Plaza.

    Will be interesting to see what happens with this lawsuit, thanks for the info Randy.
     
  17. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    ah, that makes much more sense.
     
  18. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Looks like we now need to see FNA's Civil Action filing in New Jersey.

    2:11-cv-04487-KSH

    Sounds like they may have jumped to get their lawsuit in before StLM got theirs filed. I find it interesting that StLM went straight to federal court.

    I may be fun reading each side's responses to the individual allegations in the next round. There are going to be some nice depositions too.

    Jeff
     
  19. rollsorferrari?

    rollsorferrari? F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2006
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    now the only type of law knowledge i have is a business law class i took in college, but it sounds like the underlying issues are as follows:

    STLM bought the maserati dealership hoping it was a stepping stone to a Ferrari dealership, turns out they lost money on maseratis....i kind of doubt this is true, they wouldn't have kept the franchise for as long as they've had it if they were losing money on all their cars....

    FNA came to STLM and told them they can have a Ferrari franchise when they do the next round of franchising, but in the mean time, here's a service authorization franchise

    STLM accepted the service option, hoping they'd have a leg up on the competition when the next franchise opportunity came around, but in the mean time, lost money doing mostly warranty work (which isn't uncommon, i'm sure it's the same way at any chevy or ford dealership)

    FNA ticked off some of their current franchisees by selling new cars to non-franchised dealerships

    FNA ultimately wound up giving STLM the runaround when it came to them getting the dealership, which although i can see STLM being upset about it, where is the legal basis here? to me, it sounds like the parents that promise their kid a car, but then backs out of the promise. yeah, it makes people mad, but i'm not sure where the legal basis is here. then again, i only skimmed through the complaint, so there may be something in there that i missed.
     
  20. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    No attorney here either but:

    FNA may have broken assorted laws related to the franchisee/franchiser relationship. There individual state laws and (I believe) federal ones too.

    If I was FNA I would be concerned that an old class action lawsuit by all the dealers that never developed could be restarted from this filing. Toss in the above item and one gets civil and criminal implications.

    I have heard that the dealer franchise appointment had been much, much further along that this filing leads one to believe. To the point where it was done just needing one signature. Can't wait for the depositions around this topic because (as told to me in the past) there is an incendiary tidbit that could get ugly for FNA.

    If my information is accurate and is allowed then FNA should be writing a check to keep this from public filings and the negative ramifications it could bring them (see criminal and civil).

    StLM filing this lawsuit has sealed their fate as far as ever getting a Ferrari franchise. Makes me also think that keeping their Maser one could get shaky too.

    Jeff
     
  21. rollsorferrari?

    rollsorferrari? F1 Veteran

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    i can see it getting interesting, plus, it could turn out to be a PR nightmare for ferrari - if this were a chevy dealership or a ford dealership, nobody would care, but this is ferrari, so it's a sexy news story for anyone that wants to pick it up.

    i can see a class action suit being brought against ferrari by their dealer network IF it's true that they were giving non-authorized dealerships brand new cars to sell.

    however, at the end of the day, from what i read, there was nothing in writing about a ferrari dealership being awarded to STLM, there may have been a verbal agreement, which, if i remember correctly, and i'm sure randy can say whether this is true or not, but in the state of missouri, verbal agreements can have the weight of a written contract, if proven and upheld in court. but considering FNA is based in NJ, yet they have their LLC based in delaware i think i read, that could be tricky.
     
  22. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Need to see the New Jersey filing from FNA on their complaint.

    The Service Franchise has New Jersey law stipulated but since the dispute is not stricly about the Service but instead about the never given Sales one there may be a wedge available for the legal arguments that Missouri is where the trangression happened.

    RANDY: How hard is it do venue arguments? How do competing venues tend to play it out? Did I read it correctly that FNA's filing was state court in NJ but StLM went straight to Federal?

    The StLM legal response to the Missouri Federal Court and their response to the NJ court on why the case should remain in Missouri may have some interesting insights. Notice that StLM is going for jury - no arbitration. I take it as wanting a big settlement and is planning to drag FNA through the mud to show how bad of people they are. This could have lots of boxes of discovery and depositons. The attorneys on both sides will be able to purchase new custome spec'd Ferrari off these fees.

    Jeff
     
  23. Scuderia Santo Luigi

    Scuderia Santo Luigi Formula Junior

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    #48 Scuderia Santo Luigi, Oct 13, 2011
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2011
    Accordingly, I share your (and Randy's) concern that the Maserati franchise may not make it through this mess either. I could see StLM getting their settlement, but I could also see the Maserati franchise getting pulled somehow. It'd be interesting to know if StLM was actually losing money on Maseratis, because it seems like they would have shed the brand by now if that was really the case.

    A side note on the old Moore Aston Martin/Jaguar location- Kia there makes much more sense than at the Plaza campus. I wonder if that will replace their South County store or if it will be an addition to the Suntrup properties. If the latter is true, then Kia is really beginning to saturate Greater St. Louis, since Lou Fusz isn't far away and Jim Butler Kia is out in the valley. Obviously Suntrup won't sell Jaguars there, so I wonder if they may still pursue a franchise but sell the Jaguars from their West County Motors (BMW/Saab/Volvo) campus? It seems that the old BMW building could accommodate them, or, perhaps the Saab space since that brand's future is still really shaky at best.

    I don't know the situation at Plaza, but it seems like Jaguar would be a good fit for their portfolio of brands. Jaguar and Land Rover could eventually be paired as they are in Peoria and other locations. Funny thing is, now that I "like" Land Rover on Facebook, I get ads from Jaguar-Land Rover of Peoria all the time. Strangely, Peoria is the closest Jaguar dealer to St. Louis now.
     
  24. Randy

    Randy Formula 3

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    #49 Randy, Oct 15, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is the New Jersy DJ action. If Ferrari has the documents to back their allegations up, I don't think StLM has a leg to stand on. Also, it strikes me that StLM alleges the RICO violations. Basically what they're saying is that Ferrari broke the law and we were fine with it until they broke their deal with us. I can't imagine the U.S. Attorney would be happy with either of them is that were true. I think I would have save those allegations for a later deposition. I just got back from Veags, so I'll comment more on this tomorrow.
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  25. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    After reading through the filing I am surprised how FNA did not do much to address their innocence on the release of new cars from the Mill Valley to StLM and the entire RICO assertions. They did do a nice job of showing how StLM made a business plan showing how Maserati sales and service only for Ferrari were financially viable.

    From what I have heard in the past there was a Ferrari sales agreement done for StLM and waiting for one last signature by FNA. If true then this, to me, would clearly refute all the FNA statements that there never was an intention to have a sales outlet in the St. Louis area.

    Jeff
     

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