At what point does a salvage history no longer matter?

It matters on your 930.

 

After 30 years it doesn't matter in my opinion. At least on sports cars. The condition it is currently in is much more important.

BT

 

It's easy to get into a car. Not as easy to get out of it. So, for a car with a story, it may ALWAYS be an issue.

I think it needs to be judged on a case-by-case basis. 250 GTO? No problems. 250 GTE? Not so sure about that.

Although, with modern equipment, repairs can be done accurately enough. And, if it's been repaired correctly in the first place. But, now go back to the first line of the post.

CW

 

Gerald Rouse's mantra is "All that matters when considering a Ferrari is (1) current condition, (2) current condition, and (3) current condition."

The point being that almost all old bangers have been wrecked at some point. The key, thus, is how well the car was repaired and maintained to the current date.

Given this, I wouldn't (and haven't) let a salvage title be a deal breaker for a good car. I would, of course, use it to hammer down the purchase price if I could.

Dale

 

It has to be a rare car and in-demand by collectors.

The 250 GTO is the obvious example, because there were only 39 (?) or so cars ever built, it's hugely famous, etc. The obvious counterexample is something common like a 360, where you would just go buy one of the other 16,999 cars. The parts prices quickly exceed the value of the entire car.

Rarity has to make the car sufficiently valuable to be worth a complete teardown and restoration. Once a car has been done to that level, "salvage" is irrelevant in the same way the odometer doesn't matter much after a full engine rebuild.

The "at what point" question kind of depends on your wallet thickness.

Over in the German car world, a 300 SL Gullwing or increasingly the Roadster is almost always worth bringing back. I don't think you could hit the car hard enough for it to be a "salvage" car. Ditto the Porsche 550 Spyder or Carrera Speedster.

 

It would matter to me with a Dino! Or anyother non-high-end racer (like the above mentioned GTO).

Dino#1: Decent history, no evidence of serious previous repair.

Dino#2: Decent history, salvage title, history of serious mishap.

Same price; which Dino do you choose?

 

... which is a nice mantra, but misses the point that once a car has been in a collision it is extremely difficult to determine its integrity without taking it apart.

I agree, though, that if I were looking for a bargain Ferrari (hate that expression...) with zero collector value then a salvaged 360 would be one where you could negotiate very hard and drive it hard without remorse.

 

As usual Gerald is correct. A good repair can rather easily turn out a car that is superior in every way than the rather crude build technology available to the factory especially with the vintage cars. What really matters though is the knowledge and acceptance of a prospective buyer. Some will never get over the hurdle of the car not being a virgin. The early cars were hand built, there is no reason whatsoever they cannot be rehandbuilt to a much higher standard by qualified people. Later cars is another matter and another pool of buyers. Too many of those cars around to consider anything that makes you think twice.

Silly but it is a reality.

 

Why would it matter on any of these car?

Its the missed informed "Ferrarinistas" to whom it matters because they put Ferraris on a pedestal and never drive them. "God forbid" that it may add miles

A collision repaired correctly will have no effect on the integrity of the car, especially if it suffered no frame damage. I have bought/rebuilt many collision cars but never with frame damage and you could not tell once it was repaired.

These cars are collectors car and by the time they don't become collectors car then it will truly not matter.

A bargain Ferrari stops being a bargain after purchase ...its a cost to maintain

ITS STILL JUST A CAR! buy right and drive it... miles are not your enemy ...

 

I think you answered your own question, I think the problem is there aren't any guidelines for quality when rebuilding a car and any shop or someone at home can "rebuild" a car. I've had people tell stories of other people being killed in cars that a shop did work on and tell me what they did, yes that is stupid and I'm not a detective to investigate if what they were telling me was true but you get the point. If every rebuilt car was rebuilt by a shop or someone that knew what they are doing I think it would be fine.

 

Bo.......

Good question.......I don't know. Never really pondered it. Guess it would matter how many examples of the car you were looking at were originally built and still existed to this day......as well as how many were in the marketplace to choose from.

Would I buy one versus the other if I had the choice.....yes.....I would buy the clean title car in most cases, unless my reasons were solely economic, due to rarity, market conditions, or track use related.

 

Buyer ignorance if you do your homework before buying a salvage car.

1; one needs before pictures to see the damage
2; take the car to a reputable shop who has a frame machine to determine if the car was put back together properly .

Everyone say have a PPI done why not have a frame shop do a PPI.

We buy clean title cars but that is not guarantee that it was not involved in an accident.

I would rather buy a car with a salvage title because at least it has a history of damage then to buy a clean title car that has been in a accident.



How many of us took our cars to a frame shop as a part of the PPI to determine if there is evidence of accident

 

interesting thread because I'm going to at 2 Ferraris that where involved in accidents and both have clean titles. Neither have been repaired yet ...

 

I would think the original construction method of the car would be the primary factor in determining the relevance of a salvage history more than anything else. A ladder framed sports car from the 1960s time frame, such as the GTO cited as an example, could be either comprehensively repaired or completely reconstructed and substituted relatively easily with a good jig, and be as good or even better than new, but a current car's far more complex monocoque construction would not be economically feasible to recreate. IMHO.

 

I agree. Unless the modern Ferrari has the value of an Enzo it's not going to be worth it to reconstruct after major damage, and a salvage designation should weigh very heavily.

The complexity of modern cars makes it difficult and maybe impossible to assess what damage was done in a serious impact. With older cars, it's all about welds and bent metal.

 

Actually, I would prefer a wrecked Dino over a wrecked 360 or an Enzo. Being tube framed, a Dino, as Brian said, can be made better than new. I don't know if you can say the same for a newer tub car. I recall a post made a while back about a 348 that got dropped off a flat bed wrecker in So Cal (FBB, was that you?). Not only was this a hit the factory never contemplated when designing the car, but it apparently loosen every nut. Checking out a car like this would be a major undertaking.

Gerald never said it would be easy. Before I brought my old GTC, me and an old-school body man spent about three hours going over the car while up on a lift. It took a while, but we could tell the frame had never been repaired. Some of the struts had taken a hit, and it looked like someone had high centered the oil pan, but the frame was in great shape.

I then took the car to a level area and gave it the real test, i.e., how did it drive?

Right on, bro. I'd much rather get a known problem fixed than to try and guess with the newer cars. I remember how much grief people gave Matthew for fixing the CF tub on an Enzo.

Finally, it all depends on what you're gonna use the car for. While I would never try and do the work myself, if someone had a savalge 360 spider for sale that had been fixed, I'd be interested because I'd love to have one of these cars just to cruise around in.

Dale

 

As stated earlier it depends on rarity. There comes a point where something like a salvage title can be overlooked. Either that or the car needs to be crazy cheap.

 

Major damage I agree but salvage designation should weigh that heavily but be a consideration.

with the modern machines its easier to assess...

I don't understand why a lot of you hold these cars on a pedestal. "Bullfighter"



The one thing i learned the hard way, there no cheap Ferraris. Cheap to buy , maybe, cheap to maintain NO!

Cheaper to maintain IF you drive the thing

 

Depends on the 67 Camaro. Base car driver, no. Pace Car or high optioned big block, might even matter more than on a Ferrari. Those cars are ALL about proper documentation. A salvage title car could be built into an "tribute" car or whatever they call the fakes now.

 

A 365 GTC/4 is a car I would feel very comfortable with buying with a salvage title, provided it was properly repaired. It's a classic girder-and-I-beam car built to the tolerances of the day, not a superglued plastic composite with precise high-tech sensors feeding data to a computer to fire airbags and monitor traction at each corner of the car.

Actually, I don't -- I think newer cars (Ferrari or otherwise) are disposable in the long run. But you're right in that it matters how the salvage designation came about.

I think we'd all agree a car submerged in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is a bad bet, and that the car would need pretty much everything replaced or gone through. Worth it for a 250 GT SWB, not worth it for 360, etc.

If a car was hit, there are a lot of variables. If it was wrapped around a utility phone, literally, it's going to take quite a rare car before it's worth resurrecting it. OTOH, a 456 with a bent bonnet (which I think runs north of $20K for a new panel) and crunched front bumper/grille and spent airbags from a minor collision might be a "salvage" car that could easily be put right if someone doesn't mind the economic hit.

But, realistically, we all try to avoid salvage cars when there's any realistic chance of finding another of the same that isn't. Ultimately, the salvage title outlives all the rationalizations and stories about how it wasn't so bad.

 

this is true ...

and as you stated ...the right damage for the right price is a decent bet.

 

Hypothetically, let's consider a 360 worth say 100K gets wrecked and the insurance company figures 110K to fix it properly, so they total it and sell to whoever they have a contract with to buy the totals. Of course, the boneyard sees value greater than part stripping, so they sell it to some body guy who figures he can fix it for 50K and sell it for 75K. How confident would you be that this shop took no short cuts, that the frame was straightened and re welded properly and all the designed crumple zones and other protection are as good as new? Who can you take this car to to check? You would have to do considerable disassembly to see all the work. Thanks but no thanks.

Dave

 

depends..................

i would, and have bought cars with damage, though they were not "salvage" titled.

i would love a injured yet repaired 930, 308 GTB, BB512, Testarossa , ect. if the car was serviceable, and the price was right.

some of us just drive em.