Hey guys, if any one of you have flown into KATL before, is there anything special I should know? I am planning on taking a Piper Warrior up there IFR, and I was wondering if there is something unsual to expect, for example long holds, etc. I'm aware of the landing fees, fast approaches, etc, so I'm looking for any advice that is flight related, because some people told me they won't let you in. Any advice would be appreciated.
The real question is: Why would you want to? What experience do you have? Where do you fly into and out of regularly?
I'm sorry I should have mentioned some more details. I have about 200 hours total time, 110 xc, and my home base is MLB (D). I regularly fly into DAB and SFB C airspace, and I have been to MCO (B). My only concern was that ATL is the busiest airport in the world. The reason I wish to go in is to pick up a passenger from an international flight.
My best advice is: DON'T GET PSYCHED OUT! Consider ATL as just another airport and the runway as just another slab of concrete. Once they clear you to land, the runway is YOURS! Do not allow yourself to do anything stupid in trying to follow ATC's directions. Yes, you will likely be told to "Keep your speed up as long as practical" on final, but it is YOU who is PIC and safety is YOUR responsibility. Be VERY aware of wake turbulance when following any heavy aircraft and take the appropriate measures. If you find yourself in an unsafe or anxious condition address that condition immediately and then notify ATC. If there is something you particularly want don't be shy - ask for it. ATC will do their utmost best to accommodate you. All that being said, it is best to be well prepared. Study the Class B chart and plan your entry strategy. Have your frequencies written down on your kneepad or what ever method you use in the cockpit for taking notes. Have a printed and legible copy of the FAA airport diagram for ATL readily accessable. ATC will assume that you know where you want to go and your way around the airport. At your very first contact with ground tell them you're "UNFAMILIAR" with the field and request "progressive taxi" instructions. Don't wait until you're lost to do this - Just do it! (Do this for your departure as well.) Put on your deepest airline pilot voice and speak properly and professionally. Begin your first contact with any new controller with "Good Morning, Afternoon, or Evening" as the case may be both in the air and on the ground. It works wonders. (It's a good habit to do this all the time). Flying in the Class B airspace under positive control provides a huge safety factor. Not that you won't be looking for any rogue aircraft busting the Class B but Approach and Local control will see you along with the rest of the big picture and prevent any close encounters of the aluminum kind. When you arrive at the FBO you will be parking at make certain that you take care of any airport landing or other fees which may be assessed. Be prepared for a little "sticker shock" upon learning what it costs to leave a little bit of your rubber on ATL's runways. Flying into a busy commercial airport is a fun and completely safe experience and MUCH easier than driving in and out of the place. Let us know how it all worked out for you. Planeflyr
Thank you for your reply! I actually wasn't psyched out until everyone including my instructor was like "Wow Atlanta? In a Warrior? Make sure they let you in there", and thats when I got concerned I always have a flight plan with the appropriate frequencies along with the diagram of every airport of intended landing, and I actually always greet the controllers just to be nice. What do you mean by entry strategy? Coming from Melbourne, I was thinking about filing V3 OMN V51 CRG CRG.SINCA3 , or should I just file the airway instead of the the STAR? Also, would it be wiser to have much more fuel, like 20 gal reserves for example in case they put you in a hold forever? I'll definitely let you know how it goes, I'll do the flight on the 22nd.
If it were I, I would not file the STAR since you do not know what arrival they will be using. Of course it depends on the runway(s) in use and whether the conditions are VFR or IFR. As for strategy, it means knowing what direction they are landing ahead of tiem and planning on being Southeast if they are landing to the West or Southwest if they are landing to the East. File to the nearest VOR or intersection as appropriate thence Direct ATL and let them assign the arrival that is currently in use. It would also be good to schedule your arrival between peak congestion if at all possible. You will no doubt be a pain in some controllers rear but they MUST handle you. You can use this to your advantage by positioning yourself such that they will need to work you as little as possible and get you on the ground. If it is VFR you will have that advantage to you as they will find a spot between arrivals to sandwich you in. You will probably at some point during your flight depart from the flight plan with heading assignments and "Radar Vectors" to the final approach course, and "Cleared For the Visual Approach Runway xx". At least this is what you want! If it is actual IFR, as much as I hate to advise this, it might be better to make other arrangements. It will be mucho harder to squeeze you in with aircraft strung out all across the country and/or stacked in holds. You really don't want to be a part of that, do you? [rhetorical]. Anyway, again, good luck and allow us to get the gory details when all is said and done. Planeflyr
I flew into ATL some years ago in a 1960's Piper Apache to pick up a passenger friend off an International flight. I held for about ten turns in holding and was about to ask if I could land just to refuel so I could get back in the holding pattern, when I was vectored out of holding for the approach. I maintained speed up to the outer marker, where I slowed to gear speed, dropped the landing gear and proceeded down the glideslope. A minute later I was asked to increase speed on account of traffic following me, so I had no choice but to retract the gear and pick up about 15kts. Then I was asked to pick up another 20 kts or go around. At this point I am 25 squared, clean, and flying downhill on the glideslope. It is night BTW, and about 200 & 1/2. I hit the MM, pickup the rabbit, close the throttles, and am waiting for something close to gear speed, when tower says " Piper 1234, turn right next intersection, ground point nine". I then drop the gear, full flaps, hold the airplane high enough to avoid ground effect but avoid flying back up into the soup, and report that we will probably not make the next turnoff, but will take the next "aggie exit" . I suggest a day VFR flight into ATL for a first trip.
Hey guys, I promised to report on the trip, so here we go: I went up there on the 22nd in the morning. Departing X40 on an IFR to Atlanta, I entered the clouds at about 300 ft AGL and broke out at roughly 3,500 on my way up to my filed 8,000ft. I was VFR on Top pretty much all the way until about 30nm south of ATL. The ATL Arrival ATIS reported ceilings at 400ft and 3 miles visibility. I got a descend into the soup to 5,000 ft. I was told to expect the ILS 8L approach, so I set up. After getting the final vector, the controller told me to fly heading 360 for resequencing (I had a hell of a headwind - 30 kts). Then I was handed off to another controller who put me in a hold and advised me that it'd take about 15-20 minutes for them to make a hole in the approach sequence for me. After about 20 mins they vectored me onto the ILS 8L again, and then I was advised to expect vectors for the ILS 10 approach. The controller inquired whether I was PRM certified, which I was, and his reply was "Thank god". He then told me to expect the ILS/PRM 10 approach. I then got the final vector and was cleared for the approach and asked to keep up the speed. The PRM controller inquired whether I could hear her, and I replied "loud and clear". She then advised me I was 1/2 mile to the right of the localizer and asked me to intercept the localizer. At about 450ft AGL I broke out, and a few seconds later I had the runway in sight in the hazy weather with drizzle. I closed the throttle and put the aircraft into a sideslip to lose speed, and extended the flaps at 100kts. I then landed, got off the runway, and contacted ground. The only thing was that runway 10 is on the very south side of the field and the FBO is on the north side, so I had to taxi across the entire airport. I got handed off from one ground controller to the next, about 4 handoffs, and I finally arrived at the FBO. I paid $6 in landing fees, and the $20 ramp fee was waived with my fuel purchase. Fuel was predictably expensive at $6.24 On the way back, I opted for a fuel stop in Valdosta due to strong headwinds and the weather being near minimums at our destination. The ceiling had dropped to 300ft with 2 miles visibility, and when I copied our IFR to Valdosta, I actually got a departure procedure. I was again handed off from one ground controller to another on our way for takeoff on 9R, and I overheard one controller telling an Airtran MD80 "Airtran xxx hold short of Mike, you'll be following that Warrior on Lima, he's number one for takeoff". Before coming to a stop, I was cleared for takeoff 9R and asked to turn heading 180 as soon as practicable after takeoff for wake turbulence, so at about 300ft, while climbing into the soup, I turned to a heading of 180. I was then handed off to departure, and departure told me to fly heading 200 and to intercept the SOONE transition. On the way back, I had a 35kt headwind, so my ground speed was about 75-80 kts. On the way to Valdosta, I was IMC for the entire time except for about 10 minutes, which made for a nice scenery at sunset. Were were night IMC for the rest of the flight. Valdosta reported ceilings at 500ft and 4 miles visibility. I got the ILS 35 approach and we made a fuel stop. Taking off from Valdosta into the gloomy night, we were IMC all the way back to Florida. Our final destination was Crystal River, which has a VOR/DME circling approach with an MDA of 720feet (Field elevation is only a few feet). When we got closer, I got the automated weather, which reported a ceiling of 800 feet with a visibility of 5 miles. It turned out that the ceiling was much lower than that, because at 720 feet I was still deep in the clouds and had to go missed. I then asked Jax Center to proceed to our alternate, Ocala, which is about 25 miles northeast and is served by an ILS approach. The controller advised me to climb to 3000 feet and expect vectors for the ILS 36 approach into Ocala. Ocala's AWOS reported a 200ft ceiling with 1/2 mile visibility. I was dismayed at that because I'd been IMC for the past 6 hours, and that takes its toll on you if the aircraft doesn't have autopilot. The final vector for the approach was really tight, and I was turning onto the localizer just as I was over the OM and overshot by about 2 dots, but soon got established. We went down on the ILS and the controller advised that the frequency change was approved and that I should report on the ground on his frequency. The DA for the ILS 36 is 280 feet, and at about 300 feet I could see the sequencing lights of the MALSR, and soon afterwards I had the rest of the system and the red terminating bar in sight. I made a smooth landing and taxied to the ramp. I had been up for 19 hours, and I was glad to be on the ground and able to go to bed : ) . Overall I had to say it was an awesome trip, and if I have/get a chance to, I'll to it again. The controllers were all very nice and accommodating in Atlanta, although the ground controllers were extremely busy, but they were also very nice. Even though the weather was marginal a best for the entire trip, it was a great experience and very good IFR training at one of the busiest airports. I hope you enjoyed reading this, and thank you for your advice earlier!
Fascinating reading - and probably even more fascinating to fly. I have not heard of PRM certified before. After some searching, I found "Parallel runway monitoring." Is that what the controller and you were referring to? My son, who has his IFR, commercial, and CFI, did not know what it stood for either. Please enlighten me.
You are correct Dr. C. ILS/PRM approaches may be established if the runway centerlines are between 4,300 and 3,400ft apart, or 3,000ft if one ILS is offset by 2.5-3.0 degrees. These approaches are usually known as "simultaneous close parallel". It is flown just like a regular ILS approach, with the only difference being that you have to monitor a second frequency and that the monitor controller may break you out if the aircraft on the parallel ILS flies into the "no transgression zone". Even a normally legitimate deflection of 1-2 dots may place you into that zone, so you have to be really careful. There is a page on the FAA website for more information on ILS/PRM and SOIA if you wish the read more about it: http://www.faa.gov/education_research/training/prm/ Hope that helps, Andy
