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Attention AvChat! My next plane will be a...

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by snj5, Jul 16, 2009.

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  1. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #26 Bob Parks, Aug 3, 2009
    I forgot to mention that there were five WW1 airplanes at the Abottsford show in 1970; Avro 504K, Thomas Morse Scout, Nieuport 17, Pup, and Sopwith Tripe. That was the best part of the show for me.
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  2. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #27 snj5, Aug 3, 2009
    I'll be heading for Dayton for the WW 1 fly in for sure.
    Looking forward to 25 - 27 October!
     
  3. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #28 snj5, Aug 4, 2009
    Many rotaries - I have scoured the world and can find none available! Hopefully he might be in a selling mood.

    If not, everyone, even the wood building purists, are recommending the Rotec 110 and 150 hp 7 and 9 cylinder radials.

    What is most appealing about these early planes and the L-birds is the sheer simplicity and stick and rudder flying.
     
  4. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #29 tazandjan, Aug 4, 2009
    Russ- Fred Murrin rebuilds rotaries including LeRhones (9C and 9J), Clergets, and Oberursel Ur.IIs. Peter Jackson is actually manufacturing new Ur.II and Mercedes D.IIIa engines and Fred was the Ur.II expert in that process.

    If you are serious about a rotary, I can put you in touch with Fred, who is a good friend of mine.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  5. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #30 snj5, Aug 4, 2009
    Taz
    What would you recommend for a plane that is flown 50+ hours a year?
     
  6. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #31 tazandjan, Aug 4, 2009
    Russ- If you want the real WW-I feel, go for a rotary. Castor oil is available reasonably, so unlike the Germans in the latter parts of WW-I, you will not be running on shaky lubricants.

    The Sopwith Pup was a real sweetheart and used an 80 hp LeRhone 9C. A really benign aircraft to fly, and I have never heard from a pilot, WW-I to present, who did not love it.

    After that a Dr.I or Camel with a higher powered rotary. Fred can lead you through the progression.

    50 or so hours sounds about right. No cross-wind take-offs or landings. That is why WW-I aerodromes were rectangular, circular, or square in shape. No crosswind, no time, no how. Leads to a very long life by WW-I standards.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  7. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #32 Bob Parks, Aug 4, 2009
    Based on my experiences with Cansdale and his Pup I have to agree 100% with Taz. Cansdale tried to land his Pup in a cross wind at Abottsford and got a wing tip. Always into the wind with these things. I hope you can hire a crew to clean the airplane after every flight. Castor oil is sticky and can gum up the ignition ring and everything else if it isn't cleaned up.
     
  8. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #33 tazandjan, Aug 5, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2009
  9. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #34 Bob Parks, Aug 5, 2009
    Great videos of the tripe. If this doesn't get Russ turned on.....
    Got to remembering my visiting and helping Walt Redfern when he was building his last replica before he passed on. I used to drive down from Sandpoint, Id. to his place in Athol to help him while he was building a Fokker D-6. I couldn't believe how heavy the upper wing was when it was finished and covered. Must have been at least 160 pounds. Quite an interesting little airplane and a true hybrid with a DR-1 fuselage and D-7 type of wing system. It went to someone in Alabama if I remember correctly.
    Thanks for the video, Taz.
     
  10. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #35 snj5, Aug 5, 2009
    Great video - saw the Dr1 acro at aerodrome forum as well - terrific airmanship.

    So where do I get these engines?
     
  11. Bob Parks

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    #36 Bob Parks, Aug 5, 2009
    OH! OH!
     
  12. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #37 snj5, Aug 5, 2009
    Well, my Post Traumatic Stress Disorder acted up today.

    I was reading today of the good Mr. Murrin's crash in his Sopwith Camel about a year or so ago, due to some engine problem.
    So, here is arguably one of the best in the world WW1 constructors and pilots described as spinning in from 300 feet in his airplane with one of his engines, also arguably the best put together in the world...
    He was severely injured.

    Hey! I've done that too! And also behind an antique engine (a Warner). It sux and it hurts -- I mean really, really bad.

    So, with apologies to my good purist friends, I will not be saddling up behind any more antique engines to go hurtling out into the wild blue yonder. If it can happen to Fred Murrin, there is a lesson there. Been there, done that and have the retained orthopedic hardware.

    Nie wieder.
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #38 tazandjan, Aug 5, 2009
    Russ- What actually happened is the typical problem with WW-I English aircraft, the fuel tank pressure got low and the engine quit from lack of fuel, not from any problem with the engine. Fred was in an area where he could not recover to a landing site, so he intentionally pancaked the Camel and was hurt in the process. Search the Aerodrome Forum for more info. I passed on a lot of Fred's comments while he was in the hospital and then he himself also posted exactly what happened.

    He had tested the fuel tank pressure pretty thoroughly, but mostly with a nearly full tank of fuel, so the small volume of pressurised air on top was sufficient. When the fuel tank emptied, the larger voume could not be pressurised sufficiently, and Fred was at too low an altitude to use the fuel pressure hand pump to get the engine going again. Damage to Fred and the aircraft could have been much worse, if he had not been experienced enough to pancake and minimize damage to himself and the aircraft. He is fine now and will bebuild the Camel. Incidentally, he says he could build three or four Dr.Is in the same amount of time it took to build the Camel. The Fokkers with their welded steel tube fuselages and wood wings are among the easiest of WW-I aircraft to accurately replicate.

    British aircraft of WW-I had some rough edges. Another was the Constantinesco hydraulic powered machine gun synchronizer system, which caused all kinds of problems early in its operations.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  14. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    #39 GrigioGuy, Aug 6, 2009
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  15. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    #40 GrigioGuy, Aug 6, 2009
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  16. Bob Parks

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    #41 Bob Parks, Aug 7, 2009
    Great stuff. The 6th picture down of the L-4 is the start of a snap roll if I ever saw one.
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  17. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

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    #42 James_Woods, Aug 7, 2009
    Probably can't go wrong with the Citabria. I owned a 7ECA for a number of years, and have quite a few hours in a 180hp Super Decathlon for aerobatics.

    For the warbird connection, how about a Bucker Jungmeister? Are they expensive now - compared to the heavy warbirds?
     
  18. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #43 snj5, Aug 7, 2009
    I am actually an Aeronca guy down deep, as my first plane was a 7BCM.
    There is a lot of appeal to very simple basic flying - of course that was then, now post 9/11 there are a lot of compromises.
    I've never flown in a Stearman, N3N or a Waco - perhaps I need to try that out.
     
  19. Bob Parks

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    #44 Bob Parks, Aug 7, 2009
    If I may offer some inputs, Russ. I have flown all the airplanes mentioned here and the Stearman by far was the most enjoyable. The N3N is a close second while the Waco that I got to handle was a Waco 10 and while fun, it wasn't in the same category as the PT-13,17. The best is the Stearman. It is unbendable in the air and likes to fly as much as you do. I know of a basket case N3N south of here that I will check on next week.
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  20. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #45 snj5, Sep 7, 2009
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    Well, now I've run into a guy who wants to trade a 1945 L-5 for a Ferrari. I love my car, but I do have a weak spot for airplanes...
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  21. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    #46 judge4re, Sep 7, 2009
    http://web.mawebcenters.com/sopa/

    :)
     
  22. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #47 donv, Sep 7, 2009
    A modern Waco is actually my dream airplane. Not surprisingly, there are a bunch of them on controller.com right now.

     
  23. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #48 snj5, Sep 7, 2009
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  24. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    #49 Bob Parks, Sep 7, 2009
    Russ, this looks like an excellent airplane. The color application is exactly correct and the markings are correct. You would first fit into this airplane and it would let you get in to and out of short grass strips. It would be an interesting award winning war bird and you would have years of enjoyment with it. Boy! I would love to have that one!
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  25. Bob Parks

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    #50 Bob Parks, Sep 7, 2009
    I forgot to add that it wouldn't cost you an arm and a leg to maintain and to operate it. They are very nice to fly, too.
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