Buy

Audi in F1?

Discussion in 'F1' started by NürScud, Oct 24, 2014.

  1. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    #176 lorenzobandini, Jul 13, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2021
    Heaven forbid we have complexity in the pinnacle of auto racing...... :rolleyes:

    Let's just use FV formula, eh? Go karts perhaps..... :(
     
    william likes this.
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

    Jun 6, 2011
    11,648
    Vila Verde
    Full Name:
    Pedro Braga Soares
    It Will beber happen.why brother with them...
     
  4. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    14,638
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Conditions for Porsche to join F1 now "coming true"

    Porsche's new motorsport boss says the factors required for the manufacturer to join Formula 1 are "coming true", but it cannot "wait too long" to make its final decision.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    The Volkswagen Group, which owns the Porsche and Audi brands, has been involved in recent meetings with the FIA and current F1 manufacturers to discuss a potential entry from 2026, when new engines rules come in to play.

    Progress has been made in trying to frame new regulations to please both current teams and those outside of F1, with the MGU-H set to be abandoned as a compromise.

    Discussions are still ongoing, however, with a key issue remaining about potential advantages a new manufacturer could be given to ensure they were not consigned to being uncompetitive against rivals with much more experience of the current turbo hybrids.

    Porsche has been weighing up an F1 involvement for many years, and had an engine project underway for 2021 that could have converted its WEC engine for grand prix racing. However, its plans were abandoned when F1 ditched the idea of a shake up to the rules then.

    While its recent meetings have been overseen by CEO Oliver Blume, newly appointed vice president of motorsport Thomas Laudenbach is now heavily involved in the decision-making process.

    And he says the factors required in the next generation of power unit regulations for Porsche to commit to the championship are falling in to place.

    These namely relate to Formula 1's ability to be relevant to road car technology, with Porsche pushing for an increase in the electrified element of the turbo-hybrid set-up.

    Laudenbach told select media, including Autosport: "If you look into the future and you look at what car manufacturers are announcing concerning the share of electric vehicles they want to sell in the future, I think it is very important that Formula 1 does a shift towards electrification.

    "Yes, it is clear you can't do such a format with a [fully] battery electric vehicle. We all know that.

    "But there needs to be a much higher priority on the electric part of the powertrain. That is important.

    "As an OEM, you want to show yourself in motorsport, it needs to be relevant to what happens on the road.

    "From what I know now, the FIA made a huge step towards that direction. That's going to help."

    Laudenbach pressed on the need for F1 to go further with its measures to limit spending, beyond the recently introduced cost cap, to increase the likelihood of Porsche committing.

    This would help balance the cost of increasing the electric capacity of the power units, with Laudenbach suggesting to use more standardised parts in the internal combustion engine.

    He continued: "It's not a secret that we are thinking about [F1].

    "It's not a secret we are talking to the FIA and it's not a secret that we are, let's say, seriously considering it. But there is no decision made yet.

    "From what I know, a lot of things are going to the right direction concerning Formula 1 - how important is the electrification or the electric part of the powertrain.

    "We would like to see more standard parts in the engine, the freedom of electric parts.

    "Yes, many of the factors that I mentioned from what we know, they might be coming true."

    While Laudenbach, who returns to Porsche after an eight-year stint at Audi Sport to replace Fritz Enzinger, stressed that no ultimate decision had yet been made, he reckoned that the manufacturer could not "wait too long."

    He said: "One thing is clear, if such a decision is made you can't wait too long because if you want to race in 2025 you have to start at a certain time. That's where we are.

    "If somebody really thinks about entering this championship as a power unit manufacturer, you should always combine that with a major change in the rules so that everybody has to make step and you're not the only one.

    "It is also not a secret that if you look at PR values and fanbase and advertising value, Formula 1 is extremely good compared to other series. There is no question about it."

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/conditions-for-porsche-to-join-f1-now-coming-true/6738298/
     
    paulchua, F2003-GA and pilotoCS like this.
  5. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    22,521
    BaWü
    "From what I know, a lot of things are going to the right direction concerning Formula 1 - how important is the electrification or the electric part of the powertrain.

    "We would like to see more standard parts in the engine, the freedom of electric parts.

    "Yes, many of the factors that I mentioned from what we know, they might be coming true."

    More E and more spec. Not sure thats the direction of F1 is going to have to go E at some point. Biofuels are nice but ICE is going to be out sooner rather than later in my opinion. I do not state this as good or bad. Reality with the way the major makers are going overall. Racing is not selling cars in general. The Porsche accounts sheet is fully supported by its major road cars not its sportscars. Those are enabled by SUV etc. A delicate balance. This quite a 'hedged' input in the press it is.
     
  6. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    14,638
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Image Unavailable, Please Login



    Does Audi buy into McLaren?

    Audi and Porsche are under time pressure. A decision has to be made by December 15 as to whether and how to get into Formula 1 from 2026. Do you buy a team or are you just an engine partner? We have collected the latest information.

    It's the hottest rumor in the paddock. Audi wants to buy McLaren and Porsche wants to team up with Red Bull from 2026. But how much is there really in the entry of the Volkswagen subsidiaries? The fact is: Audi and Porsche have discussed a possible collaboration with four teams. According to information from auto motor und sport, that is McLaren, Red Bull, Williams and Sauber.


    At the moment different constellations are being explored, from the purchase of a racing team to a partnership with more or less a say. But first of all, in Wolfsburg, Ingolstadt and Zuffenhausen, the fundamental question has to be clarified as to whether you will even enter the premier class. And if so, with Audi and Porsche as a pair or with just one of the two brands.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login



    Deadline is December 15th

    The CEOs of VW, Audi and Porsche are apparently in favor of the Formula 1 project and also for the dual solution. Because you only have to develop and service one engine, but you get twice the marketing value. The group is also pursuing the same strategy with the prototype project for Le Mans.

    The final proposal on how to conquer Formula 1 will then be voted on in the group's executive board at the beginning of December. The two German premium manufacturers are under time pressure. The FIA wants to adopt the new engine regulations from 2026 at its World Council meeting on December 15.

    It was specially bent so that Audi and Porsche can live with it. A V6 turbo without MGU-H with a threefold share of electrical power and sustainable fuel. Formula 1 makes these regulations dependent on a binding commitment from the Volkswagen subsidiaries.

    Before that happens, there are still many questions to be answered. Building an engine is one thing. You also need the right team. And there are some hurdles. The ideal solution from the point of view of the corporate executives apparently looks like this: Audi buys McLaren, either the whole company or just the racing team. Porsche is entering into a partnership with Red Bull like Honda is now.


    McLaren doesn't want to sell

    Since Formula 1 introduced a cost cap, the solution has become interesting again with your own team. It could expand into a money printing machine. "The costs are fixed, the income is known. A real business model is developing from this. Mercedes and its team are making a profit this year, and we will also be able to compensate for the engine costs," says Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff. McLaren's colleague Andreas Seidl promises: "We will soon be in the profit zone. This year alone we received 30 percent more sponsorship money."

    McLaren doesn't seem to be very interested in a sale at the moment. It was only in December 2020 that the US sports agency MSP Sports Capital bought 15 percent of McLaren for £ 185 million. The Americans want to increase to 33 percent in 2022. Ever since word got around how Formula 1 was booming, there has been a gold rush atmosphere.


    The problem for potential buyers is that with the success of Formula 1, the teams become more and more expensive. You can already see trends like those on the real estate market. McLaren will soon have to pay a billion dollars. Many teams are not for sale. One could only imagine a change of ownership in the medium term at Williams, Sauber and Alpha Tauri.

    What role can Red Bull play?

    But even an engine partnership, as Porsche apparently has in mind, is expensive. The drive units would have to be delivered to Red Bull free of charge, the lettering on the car costs money and a say for the drivers on top of that. That is why the story is told in the paddock that Porsche is targeting Williams as an alternative. "They need more than three years until they are a top team again. They would only be able to win immediately with us," warns Red Bull sports director Helmut Marko.

    An alliance with Red Bull would also be interesting for Porsche for technical reasons. The Swabians would first have to upgrade their engine department to Formula 1 level. Anyone who orders a corresponding test bench from the experts at AVL today waits a year and a half. Red Bull's new powertrain factory has just received six test stands. Two of them were originally addressed to Porsche. For a previous Formula 1 project that fell asleep.

    At the moment, the plan is for Red Bull to build its own engines for 2026. "We will start developing as soon as the regulations are in place. All the details will be ready in mid-2022," confirms Marko. If Porsche is interested in working with them or Honda is thinking of returning, the engine factory in Milton Keynes could do the preparatory work. Red Bull keeps all options open. The service contract with Honda is therefore only extended year after year.

    No red carpet for newbies

    However, the competition watches with eagle eyes what happens at Red Bull. Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari will not accept that Porsche and Red Bull develop in parallel and ultimately pool their experiences. "You would have twice as many test bench hours as we do. And it would be a violation of the cost cap, because in this case two companies are working on one engine with twice the budget," it is said in circles of the established.

    The nervousness is already great in the camp of the top dogs. There was a long struggle to find a compromise that was barely tolerable. You want Audi and Porsche with you, but you don't want to lay them down the red carpet either. That is why the four-cylinder that Formula 1 initially had in mind also died.

    Nevertheless, Audi and Porsche do not go into the Formula 1 adventure entirely unprepared. After the Le Mans exit, a V6 turbo was developed in Stuttgart with the aim of entering Formula 1 with Red Bull. It even ran on the test bench in 2018. Shortly before an agreement was reached, the board of directors overturned the project.

    After all, the newcomers managed to get the MGU-H buried. There was great fear that Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault would not be able to catch up on the experience gained by Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault in a timely manner. On the other hand, the German car companies did not get through that the front axle was also recuperated. The establishment fears that Audi and Porsche could benefit too much from their Le Mans experience. "It also means additional weight and additional costs," says Ferrari.

    The debates about finding a common denominator dragged on so long that the planned start of the new engine formula has to be postponed to 2026. That should be fine with Audi and Porsche. This gives newcomers enough time to create something good.

    https://www-auto--motor--und--sport-de.translate.goog/formel-1/audi-mclaren-verkauf-f1-motoren-einstieg-2026/?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc
     
    petrol_junkie and F2003-GA like this.
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    12,436
    Sunbelt
    Full Name:
    Bro
    IMO Both should buy back marker teams rebrand and take the long road to the top - It would be better for their brands not to be tied to RB or McLaren
     
  9. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    13,636
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    The more teams, the better. This would be great!
     
    F2003-GA and jgonzalesm6 like this.
  10. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    6,781
    Buying McLaren was a crapshoot, I suppose. Toro Rosso, Sauber... that´s the kind of teams that can be bought for a reasonable sum of money.
     
    F2003-GA likes this.
  11. To remove this ad click here.

  12. trumpet77

    trumpet77 Formula 3

    Jun 13, 2011
    1,894
    Great Neck, NY
    Full Name:
    Robert Nixon
    I'd love to see Porsche in F1 again. I've seen almost no mention of the bio-fuel that Porsche is working on, but with their electric power (Porsche Taycan, Audi eTron, VW electrics) my guess is that they are fully capable of joining in 2026, just working on the details.
     
  13. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    8,138
    So 847 teams (of 2 cars each) all competing for 22 grid positions would be "great" !!
     
  14. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    14,638
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Well, Porsche in F1 awhile back wasn't so popular.

    Going forward, Porsche did build a V6T-Hybrid PU for F1 not too long ago. With regards to bench testing, I think they're going to be slow coming out of the gates given Mercedes and Honda's PU. Renault and Ferrari are still trying to catch up and it's been 8 years already.

    I realize Porsche's 919 LMP1 program was dominant so that platform MIGHT help them.

    It also depends on RedBull and Honda. RedBull could take a Porsche PU with previous Honda foundations and build off of that platform IF Honda really leaves. IF Honda doesn't leave, then Porsche is completely on it's own. Time will tell with Honda being the BIG chess piece.
     
  15. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    22,521
    BaWü
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ferrari-unsure-on-concessions-for-potential-new-f1-manufacturers/6769188/

    Ferrari unsure on concessions for potential new F1 manufacturers
    By: Luke Smith
    Nov 11, 2021, 4:20 AM
    Ferrari Formula 1 chief Mattia Binotto is unsure concessions should be given to potential new power unit manufacturers amid continued interest from Volkswagen Group brands Porsche and Audi.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    F1 stakeholders have been in talks for a number of months about what the next generation of power units will look like upon their planned introduction in 2026, agreeing on a removal of the MGU-H.

    It has led to interest from VW brands Porsche and Audi, with discussions continuing over potential concessions to ensure that any incoming manufacturers are not uncompetitive against rivals who have more experience with the existing turbo hybrids.


    Ferrari F1 boss Binotto acknowledged that while any newcomer would “need to start from scratch” and that there could be extra allowance for CapEx investments, he did not feel this should also apply to the operational side.

    “On other resources like dyno hours or OpEx, I’m not too sure [about concessions],” said Binotto.

    “If you are a newcomer, you’ve got an advantage on the fact that you are only focused on the new development, while we as current manufacturers need to split our effort into the current running operations and what will be the new one.

    “I think that removing the MGU-H, which has been agreed, implies that it’s a brand new project for everybody.

    “So it’s starting from scratch for everybody, and I don’t feel that they’ve got a disadvantage.

    “I think they’ve got skills on renewable fuel. They’ve got skills on electrical. I’m not too sure they are lacking the competencies to challenge the current manufacturers.”

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Porsche already has a presence in Formula E, and Binotto argues that it shouldn't be given a leg-up due to existing competencies

    Photo by: Rudy Carezzevoli / Motorsport Images

    Newly-appointed Porsche vice-president of motorsport, Thomas Laudenbach, recently said that conditions for an F1 entry were “coming true”, but warned it cannot “wait too long” to decide on a potential entry.

    Porsche has been weighing up involvement in F1 for a number of years, and even went as far as beginning an engine project for 2021 before plans were scrapped to overhaul the regulations.

    Current McLaren F1 boss Andreas Seidl previously oversaw Porsche’s motorsport interests, leading the brand’s successful return to the top tier of sportscar racing via the LMP1 programme that won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2015-17.

    “My approach was always that even as a newcomer, for example when we entered Le Mans, I don’t want any concessions,” Seidl said.

    “Because I want to compete with competitors on a level-playing field. I guess you have to accept when you are coming into a sport or other sports that it might also take time to build up this competitiveness.

    “At the same time, I have no doubt with the timeline also that is in place, when we see regulations come into place, whoever would enter F1, there’s enough time and I guess also enough knowledge around and knowhow, these new manufacturers that they can be in a reasonably competitive position from the first year onwards.”
     
  16. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    13,636
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    Yeah, I mean then qualification minimums would actually mean something again. It would be nice to see where manufacturers and companies stand in open competition.

    Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday. Remember those days?
     
  17. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    8,138
    Just imagine how crowned it would be having 1694 cars on trace trying to warm up the tires and get a single unimpeded lap.
     
  18. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    13,636
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    I mean there aren't 850 car companies. That's sort of the point of minimum qualification times. Or really make it interesting and limit teams to 1 car if there are say, 20 manufacturers.

    I mean the majors are 10. Through in even the small bit players, and it's still around 20.
     
  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    14,638
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Nothing confirmed yet.....

    An Autocar source says Audi has bought the entire McLaren Group with plans to enter its own team in Formula 1
     
  20. classic308

    classic308 F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    6,398
    Westchester, NY
    Full Name:
    Paul
    https://www.planetf1.com/

    it’s hitting other sites too…
     
  21. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    22,521
    BaWü
    Nothing in Gulf News - Sport or Business. Nothing in Bahrain news. Bahrain Sovereign Wealth fund would be a large player in this.
     
  22. Sig. Roma

    Sig. Roma Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 11, 2007
    916
    Bella Italia
    Full Name:
    Dom T.
  23. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    22,521
    BaWü
    Nothing in AutoBild.
     
  24. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    35,211
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
  25. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    14,638
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Gotta love these guys, taking a swipe at Mercedes for the Abu Dhabi last lap outcome and decision.




    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    Audi tells FIA it intends to confirm F1 entry early next year

    Audi intends to confirm early next year its plans to enter to Formula 1, the manufacturer has advised the sport and its governing body, the FIA.

    Audi board chairman Markus Duesmann and Audi Technical Development board member Oliver Hoffmann indicated the manufacturer is satisfied with the progress the FIA has made with new technical regulations for the 2026 power units.

    F1 is seeking a new manufacturer to join Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault following the departure of Honda, whose engines will now be prepared by Red Bull. Two Volkswagen Group brands, Audi and Porsche, have shown interest, and the former has now indicated it is close to making a commitment.

    In a letter sent on Tuesday Duesmann and Hoffmann told F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali and outgoing FIA president Jean Todt they believe the draft regulations offer a fair compromise for newcomers and existing competitors, as well as meeting the objectives agreed for the new power units.

    The FIA World Motor Sport Council subsequently confirmed the 2026 power units will retain the existing 1.6-litre V6 engines and increase the amount of electrical energy they can generate, while doing away with the expensive MGU-H. Power unit costs will also be capped for the first time.

    The management board and supervisory board of Audi will now decide whether to formally approve its entry into the championship.

    In an apparent swipe to rivals Mercedes, Duesmann and Hoffmann opened their the letter – seen by RaceFans – by congratulating Todt on what it regarded as a fair conclusion to this year’s Formula 1 championship. They referred specifically to the final lap, on which Max Verstappen passed Lewis Hamilton to clinch the title following a controversial restart, which Mercedes considered appealing against for four days before backing down.


    https://www.racefans.net/2021/12/20/audi-tells-fia-it-intends-to-confirm-f1-entry-early-next-year/
     
    F2003-GA likes this.
  26. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    14,638
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    This translation is from F.A.Z. Sport (German)

    According to information from FAZ, Audi & Porsche do not just want to enter F1 (2026) as mere engine suppliers, but want to compete with their own racing teams. FAZ claims that the negotiations with McLaren & Red Bull are at an advanced stage.


    Talks are about a purchase offer for McLaren by Audi and a close Porsche cooperation with Red Bull. Audi & Porsche are reportedly planning to develop the F1 powertrain together, but each will offer it to other F1 teams under its own name. VW board still has to approve the plans.
     
  27. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    8,138
    P&A are in a position to buy RB out of the Honda engine position and use it for themselves.
     
    jgonzalesm6 likes this.

Share This Page