Autocar Magazine / Ferrari Announces New 360 | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Autocar Magazine / Ferrari Announces New 360

Discussion in '360/430' started by kenyon, Mar 9, 2004.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran

    Oct 13, 2001
    6,052
    Clearwater, FL
    Full Name:
    Mark
    This could be mis-information

    The second it leaks out that the 360 is being changed....you could see a years worth of 360 sales stall,....while people wait for the next one.

    Ferrari needs to be able to shock everyone with news of the new car right before it comes out, or sales of the current 360 drop like a rock as everyone on the list cancels their order.
     
  2. madturk

    madturk Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,508
    Williston, ND
    Full Name:
    Seyhan Kilincci
    I say they need to get to the rescue of the 360 first. Really who cares about the 575 that much. Don't get me wrong I think it's a great car. BUT you can not compare the 575 to Lambo's and cars like that. The 575 is doing fine against the Astons and Bentleys. The 360 needs to gone soon if the folks at Ferrari wanna still be in this game.
     
  3. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,446
    Brian, i think Rossi is reffering to a post by the moderator on Rennteam.com website. The moderator is claiming that the he has pictures of the replacement but will not give it out. he also claims that it will be out before the end of the year. IMHO the moderator is full of it!
     
  4. jim g

    jim g Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2003
    887
    Waverly, Pa.
    Full Name:
    Jim Gress
    Pretty clear from my dealer Model Year 2005-displacement increase minor facelift for the Modena 480 hp, 600 Maranello debuts. 2006 minor redesign of exterior and chasis with larger displacement engine for the Spider. 2007-F60 comes out with in excess of 800hp. Don't shoot the messenger but Algar in Philly told me this stuff.
     
  5. titanium360

    titanium360 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Nov 10, 2003
    3,446
    on the other hand i hope rossi is correct. can't wait for the replacement!
     
  6. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,524
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    I've already seen spy pics of a face-lifted 360 in front of the factory in Maranello. I've read it will most likely get a 4.0 V8 with about 500hp. The "400 Monza?" will be presented in 2005, untill a totally new car is presented a few years later. Haven't these pics been posted here already???

    It's just to early for a totally new Modena succesor now IMO. Again, see what period was between the launch of the 308 (1975), 308QV (1982) and the upgraded 328 (1985); launch of 348 (1989) and upgraded F355 (1994). The Modena will first have just a upgrade too before they go on too the next level.

    Greets, Alex.
     
  7. rossi

    rossi Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2004
    480
    I still believe that we see the Modena successor in early 2005 or even late 2004. It will have the new V8 currently only used in the Maserati. If it will be a totally new car (as said e.g. at rennteam.com) or just some design changes a la Enzo but based on the Modena (as I would suggest) I can't say.

    I don't see the need for a replacement for the 575 right now. IMO it competes quite well against its rivals. It's the 360 that got overtaken by the time and by cars like the Gallardo. Power war has risen the level and it was a mistake of Ferrari to spend the 360 only 20 hp more than the 355. And I don't think that they could squeeze much more out of the old V8, also it has reached its capacity limits. The old V8 is at the end of its life. Don't get me wrong but we can see that at the Challenge Stradale: said to be 25 hp stronger and lighter, it is still no match for cars like turbo, GT3 or Gallardo. Ferrari should change that.
     
  8. alx355gt

    alx355gt F1 Veteran

    Feb 3, 2004
    9,524
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Alexander
    Made a mistake in my last post.
    Story was like this actally...

    03.07.2003!!!* FIRST SIGHTING OF REVISED FERRARI 360 MODENA IN MARANELLO
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The revised Ferrari 360 Modena, to be redubbed as the 400 Modena when it goes on sale in 2004, has been caught testing undisguised near the factory in Maranello.

    Despite strong sales figures, Ferrari is to update the 360 Modena in order to fight off increasing competition, in particular from the recently launched 500-bhp 5.0-litre V10 Lamborghini Gallardo which has raised the goalposts in this segment.

    Under the bonnet as the new name-change suggests the Modena's engine has been reworked, total capacity up from 3.6 to 4.0-litres through an increased bore and stroke. A power hike to 400-420 bhp will match 360 Challenge Stradale.

    Effectively a performance update, outwardly, only subtle modifications have been made to the Pininfarina design, with new redesigned Xenon headlights being the most recognisable change from the current 360 model.* The former body-coloured headlamp carriers make way for purposeful black alternatives.* The general shape of the
    units will remain the same. Thin multispoke alloy wheels currently fitted to the 360 Challenge shall be included in the stylistic makeover, delivering a greater stiffness.

    The subtle modifications are expected for spring next year, with a launch at the Geneva Motor Show planned, with the revised model being available in both Coupe and Spyder formats.

    The replacement for the Modena, to be called the 420 and possibly tagged 'Monza', is expected mid-2005 and will be fitted with a 500bhp ( 480 Nm ) 4.0-litre JTS V10.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  9. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Really? I first heard of the replacement last summer, as most of us did, and I haven't seen any effect yet.

    Gary
     
  10. Jordan Ross

    Jordan Ross Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    601
    Austin
    What does JTS mean?

    And the discussion on wether the Monza will have a Maser-derived V8 or an Enzo-derived V8 is pointless as they are the same engine...

    I think that Ferrari waiting till '07 is a bit silly, but the 360 is no slouch as it is today. With periodical refreshes I think Ferrari could pull it off.
     
  11. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna


    Really? That sounds like it would be a pretty kick ass car, if it's lightened and has that kind of HP.
     
  12. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,380
    Texas!
    Personally, I think that you guys are forgetting something, Maserati. Ferrari is not Toyota. It doesn't have the resources to go in 1,000 directions all at the same time. Here's my guess of their priorities--

    1. Finishing up the Maser 4-door.
    2. Coming up with the 2nd Gen Maser coupe and spider. Ferrari needs this badly because this is a very profitable car that did okay in the first outing, but really needs a redo to be competitive against Porsche, MB, and so forth.
    3. The 575 replacement. These cars are not exactly flying off the showroom floor, at least here in the US. Unfortunately, IMNSHO, bragging rights will mean a bump to 600+ hp. I say unforunately because even teh old man is supposed to have said that not all Ferrari owners are Ferrari drivers.
    4. The next 360. Are you kidding? You have a car that is STILL trading above sticker, that dealers are no longer adding names to the waiting list, and you want to change it so that a bunch of F-Chatters can get into Allan Lambos face? I don't think so.

    Dr "Don't hold your breath" Tax
     
  13. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    48,581
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    Assuming they keep the 360 production line running for a few more years (as in 2006 or 2007), would this car eventually become the one Ferrari made the most of?

    And if so, I wonder what will happen to its prices in say ten years from now. A 360 for my budget? Nice.
     
  14. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,101
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    My goodness am I confused!!!!!!

    I want a new styling damit and performance damit, and dont want to wait for 2006 or 7. What happened to the baby Enzo rumour that everyone was talking about.

    I've heard so many different romours I have no idea what is going on. A 20 hp gain for the 360, with no changes?
     
  15. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    This is incorrect. The current engine is basically the same block that the 308 started with and has been bored as much as possible with the bore center to center spacing. The current stroke is taxing the limits of connecting rod length to stroke ratio. This engine block is near the end of its development cycle.

    The Maserati engine block has the larger bore center to center spacing, a higher deck height that enables the V8 architecture to grow into the 4.0 to 5.0 litre sizes that will be capable of defending the Ferrari performance envelope. All with reasonable cylinder cooling and connection rod to stroke ratios.
     
  16. rossi

    rossi Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2004
    480
    FERRARI PLEASE READ THIS:

    We need a new Modena SOON, as soon as possible. And precisely because it is the best selling Ferrari, it must always be up to date and keep the pace.

    It should have a more aggressive, thrilling design, should stay at least as light as the current car and should have at least 480 hp. That's the only way to compete with cars like the Gallardo and the new Porsche turbo (and many more others to come as e.g. the Ford GT).

    Talking about that the 360 is still competitive against these new rivals is BS. And this is not because it's a slow car but because its rivals have become that powerful and that fast. You can argue about if the horsepower power war makes sense but it's a FACT. And not reacting to that new development will hurt Ferrari's good reputation in the end.
     
  17. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,612
    Dallas, TX, USA
    I think that's the only issue in your post that would concern Ferrari... their business is mostly about preserving and enhancing their brand. They can go head-to-head with Ford and the rest... but that can be a losing battle!!

    Rather, I think they'll be better off creating excitement for the Ferrari brand via the 360's big brother. I think what they need is a Testarossa-like exotic... a unique look, mid-engine (either front-mid or rear-mid) V12, with performance that beats the Murcielago, carving out a niche that it owns in that space.

    Just as the TR helped pull sales for the 348, such a "baby Enzo" or "360 big brother" would help boost the Ferrari brand, keep eyes on the Ferrari line-up, and help carry sales for the 360 despite the competition's superior numbers. Remember, the existing 360 waiting list persists, despite the availability of Gallardos.

    FURTHER, if they could actually get waiting lists and higher sales of the V12 2-seater, that would add far more profit than simply longer waiting lists of the 360.
     
  18. rossi

    rossi Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2004
    480
    Brian, do you really think Ferrari could ever change back to a big mid-engined car like the Testarossa was? I would appreciate that, but I'm not sure if it would be as successful as a 550/575 front-engined car.

    BTW when talking abot waiting lists: I could get a Modena Berlinetta within half a year and the market is full of undriven new Spiders (dealer offered me three at once).
     
  19. robinh

    robinh Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2004
    622
    Cambridgeshire, Engl
    Full Name:
    Robin
    Brian is right on the money about brand. In a way it almost doesn't matter if Ferrari make cars or not provided they make money from the brand. Remeber the company was started to race cars not to sell them.

    Don't get me wrong I'm certainly not saying that Ferarri isn't in the car business but it's more in to the brand business than most if not all other car business and we buy into that, not just into the cars.

    The question Ferrari will be asking is what will enhance the brand and what will damage it. This is a much tougher question than should we compete with teh 500bhp cars out therebecause they also have the success of the F1 team etc. although F1 is in danger of boring the pants off everybody.

    Bringing out a new 360 while the 360 is still doing well would be a real surprise, would it boast the brand, maybe. Will a 575 replacement boost the brand, maybe not. Would a nw baby Enzo do it, who knows.

    One thing for sure, keeping us all chatting away like birds doesn't hurt the brand one little bit provided we don't get pissed off to the point where we don't care any longer.
     
  20. WFO_Racer

    WFO_Racer Karting

    Nov 5, 2003
    98
    Newport Beach Ca
    The replacement needs at least 550hp otherwise why bother.
     
  21. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna

    I was told that there will not be a 12 cylinder mid engine car for the forseeable future.
     
  22. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,612
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Let's be precise... they just came out with two... the Enzo is a rear mid-engine design AND the 612 is a front mid-engine V12. (I realize by "mid-engine" above, you meant strictly "rear mid-engine".) In fact, the 575 is the only non-mid-engine Ferrari still in production! (Another reason I believe its revision is coming first.)

    I suspect the 550/575 replacement will also be a front mid-engine V12 design using the same engine as the 612, but in a smaller, lower, more lightweight package, making it much faster. I'm hoping they'll take styling cues heavily from the 250 GTO... but not go so far as to be "retro" like everyone else... but rather create something new.

    OTOH, I could see the "baby Enzo" rumors of the 360 replacement actually being the 575 replacement... a detuned Enzo with a bit softer features and a bit more GT practicality.

    But that's just all SWAGs based on what I'd do if I had the reins.
     
  23. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    In the comparable time that the 550/575 generation has been out: are 575 going out the dealer's doors at a faster rate than did 512 TRs?
     
  24. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna

    Well, one of the reasons that I was told that they were not planning on making another REAR mid engined 12 REGULAR PRODUCTION car (How's that Brian? :) ) is because they were able to get the desirable handling characteristics for a GT car way more easily out of the 550 config than the 512. Ferrari feels like this is more the way that they should focus for the 12 cylinder production 2 seater.

    I got this from a source at Ferrari NA.

    Of course, they could be lying to me. They won't me anything special about the 360 replacement.
     
  25. bumboola

    bumboola Formula Junior

    Mar 7, 2003
    625
    Autocar March 02 2004 photos
     

Share This Page