Automatic Transmissions

There seems to be some confusion about the automatic transmissions used in some Maserati models. I would like to use this thread to post any general information or questions. I will start:

In the Khamsin and, (I believe), in the Quattroporte III, the transmissions were supplied by Borg-Warner.

My understanding is that B-W was an American independent manufacturer at the time and made essentially the same transmission for Ford and Chrysler but with slight modifications to suit each customer's specifications.

Our transmissions are the B-W model configured as the Chrysler TorqueFlight 727. This would have been supplied on any large displacement, high torque, high horsepower Chrysler, Dodge or Plymouth of that era. (The 383, 440 and 426 cubic inch engines were the same across Chrysler's three brands).

This leads me to suspect that the backs of the Maserati engine blocks might have the same mating pattern as those (American) cars.

Questions:

Can anybody comment authoritatively on the configuration of the mating surface between the engine and transmission on the Khamsin or the Quatroportte III ?

Does anyone know about the auto trans equipped Ghibli or Indy?

 

QP3,

Thanks for the information and the links. Particularly, this is key:

I was told that it was the other way around. That Maserati changed the backs of the engines to accommodate the transmission.

Carmine

 

Thanks everybody, for your comments.

I just climbed under my Khamsin with some interweb photos and identification charts. The trans does not appear to be a Chrysler Torqueflight nor a Ford C6. I do not have B-W id charts but the configuration seems to be in accordance with the MIE Khamsin B-W manual.

Generally in manufacturing, the lower quantity production will adjust to accommodate the higher quantity production. If B-W was selling two hundred thousand units per year and Maserati was casting maybe one thousand engine blocks, I would imagine Maserati had different foundry patterns for the backs of the blocks to suit each application.

With such low production numbers, I don't understand why Maserati would have used a different automatic transmission for the QP3 and K, but it seems they did so.

Still exploring this. Of course I have an ulterior motive, (which I am not yet ready to reveal).

 

Today, while I was at my shop, (actually I rent space in an industrial building), my friend Pat, (who is retired from the transmission repair business), happened to be there also. My Khamsin is up on a storage lift so we had a look under it. Pat immediately identified the transmission in his typical Paterson New Jersey way:

Pat: It's a f*****g Ford. It's a small Cruise.

Me: A Ford Cruise-o-Matic?

Pat: Yeah.

Me: It's not a Ford FMX?

Pat: Same s**t.

(New Jersey to English translation note: The transmission was known variously by two differnt names: "small case Cruise-o-Matic" and "FMX").

Me: But did Borg-Warner make them for Ford?

Pat: Yeah. It's a f*****g Borg-Warner. They made them for Ford. It's a small Cruise. Except for the bellhousing. They had to make it to fit the motor.

- - - - - -

So on the Khamsin, with a fair amount of certainty:
. The automatic transmission was manufactured by Borg-Warner, (which we already knew from the MIE manual).
. The guts are the same as a Ford small case Cruise-o-Matic, (also known as FMX). Quite likely the torque converter is the same as a Ford part number also.

The bellhousing being a separate casting from the gearbox is significant. Possibly the Khamsin engine blocks were the same for either transmission option. This would be a great help for anyone contemplating a conversion from auto to manual.

 

Ivan,

I am sorry for your pain. But a Ghibli with an automatic transmission is an aberration. So you suffered for a noble cause.

Other than the transmission mounts, you say the chassis was different? Or do you mean the car's floor sheet metal? Obviously one would have to accommodate the clutch linkage and pedals.

Carmine

 

Thanks for weighing in on that. I had heard that also, but not being a Ferrari guy I did not know for certain.

 

Thanks for that guidance, Ivan. I am most of the way along to setting up a metal fabrication and machine shop so I am pretty certain I could make anything I need. I would not cut the car though.

Thanks for posting those photos, William. It's good to have some insight into the general configuration of the engine. Side track: I wonder if the five speed QP3's were the same engine blocks as the Khamsins?

Bob, You are on the right track about my line of thinking. It's actually a low priority project but I am thinking of converting my Khamsin to a five speed.

Sam, Thanks for the offer of detective work. Tell your partner to be careful about following shady women into dark alleys. And the bird's a fake.