Automotive International 1978 308 GTS - Complete Restoration

Brian, can you give us an example of what would constitute a deduction? For example, I have an 85 308 GTB that except for filters, belts, brake pads and that the front clip was repainted above the belt line for cosmetic reasons, is otherwise as it came from the dealer, plus 32k miles. I've never been interested in showing the car, other than occasionally taking to our local C&C. That's about as much as it gets driven anymore, a few times a year.

 

The scoring system is heavily weighted to originality and not condition. There is a constant effort to get judges to deduct less for minor wear issues. The proper deduction should really come from incorrect hardware, finishes, plating, hoses with an incorrect appearance. Incorrect carpet materials or other interior materials. Missing books, tools, emergency lights are a common issue. Improper replacement rubber products and things of that nature. Consumables like batteries, tires, wiper blades only need to be of a correct part for the car. Spark plug wires on many have a very distinctive look. That should look as original. If it is a car with the boots over the distributor cap it needs to have those.

We have kind of a rule of thumb that generally speaking if deductions are more for wear and condition and less for incorrect parts, materials, finishes it reflects a lack of product knowledge.

When I instruct judges I tell them we judge for looking correct and with condition consistent with regular use. We have no desire to prevent usage, only to stay on to of maintaining the car. Obviously at some point wear and tear rise to the level of neglect and that becomes a judgement call.

 

So, in many cases the suppliers to Ferrari have changed these over the years due to environmental reasons or availability. Are points taken off for new parts with different finishes when they are a current OEM supplier component?

As another example - 355 molded carpets are NLA. If a car has replacement carpets with seams - is that a deduction?

 

Getting into judgement calls. There is supposed to be an acceptance of parts supplied by Ferrari as replacements but in many cases Ferrari just cannot be bothered to even try to maintain originality, it just has a Ferrari PN. In many cases the correct stuff is available just not at the Ferrari store. You cannot buy the correct hose clamps for a 328 from Ferrari but you can buy them all day long from other sources. I would not accept what Ferrari supplies in those cases. As for carpeting if the correct material is used and very well fitted and installed I cannot imaging seams being raised as an issue. The problem arises when that situation is used as a license to just deviate from original because trying to do it properly is too much trouble. Seams in carpeting can be well hidden by a talented interior shop. If they choose to edge black carpet seams with red edging we are going to have a hard time accepting that as the best that can be done.

 

Thanks Brian. There are a couple of feature on my car that, to the best on my knowledge, might be misconstrued as replacement or incorrect refinishing, despite being original, as delivered. I've read that GTBs had smooth spoilers. Not sure if that is true but I have seen several Bs with smooth spoilers. Mine is textured. Additionally, the plenum has a smooth finish rather than wrinkled (probably wrinkle paint that didn't wrinkle). The throttle body is wrinkled. That's the way it was delivered to me in 85 from Stan Nowak at Bob Sharp. The car originally went from the port in NJ to FAF. I've often wondered if such details would matter and how to convince judges of originality if it went against the norm.

 

I can think of 2 examples off the top of my head:

-355 tensioners are now a different color that original, but those are not going to easily be seen

- The under tray nuts with the little rubber tip have been replaced with a metal dome. Originals are NLA and I've tried to source these very hard throughout the world with no luck.

 

We dont crawl under the car.

 

GTB is supposed to have a smooth spoiler, we know of cases where they did not. US TR is supposed to have foam sound deadening on bottom of hood, Swiss TR is supposed to have Dynamat material under hood and all the others are supposed to be flat black. No one told the guys on the assembly line that.

If I judged your car I am supposed to ask if there is anything special or unusual about your car. If you told me you were the original owner and that old paint on the plenum came that way I'd give you a pass. We are supposed to know that these were not cookie cutter cars and we have no desire to create a situation that inspires owners to make each and every the same instead of preserving their differences. In my opinion it is good reason to never repaint your plenum. If it was repainted smooth it creates doubts. This is not the Corvette club. We have not cataloged how each and every Corvette was spit out of the mechanized factories where they were built and we have no desire to make these cars conform to that standard.

 

Well, I did repaint it but I also documented the original finish beforehand. Also, I didn't strip the old finish. It was just to freshen it up due to some flaking on the ribs. Have I convinced you?

Original:
\/

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Refreshed:
\/

View attachment 2665019

 

A good example is the replacement 308 oil cooler. Same part number but looks totally different from the original. I had to deal with this in 2013 (ultimately bought a used one).
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I had a 98 point car (Concorso Italiano 2016).

I take a 1/2 point deduction for my intake plenum which is about a 100 shades of red. I kinda like the patina so have never repainted.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

The surprise to me is that I've never been deducted anything (in the two times my car has been judged) for non-factory speaker grilles. I was expecting/planning on taking a point hit for that.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

I say that I "had" a 98 point car because, since CI, I have pushed in the bumpers and changed my intake pipe from the black corrugated factory hose to an aluminum one. Both reversible changes but factory-incorrect nonetheless. I dearly wish pushed-in bumpers were not a deduction; its like removing a wart from a beautiful face.

 

Again, that is a local event and things are often done differently.

 

I don't think so as a repaint. Not without a track record as is with the TR hood foam.

 

Glad the consistency is improving. It must be difficult and I appreciate that it needs to be fun for the volunteer judges too. I am always thankful that people enjoy being judges.

My non-factory speaker grilles still remain a surprise to me that they don't cause a deduction. I presume judges have let them go within the "tastefully done stereo installation" verbiage. Would they be a deduction under the more carefully standardized National system?

 

Should have been a deduction. Difficult getting good 308 judges. From beginning to end there are a lot of variations. We have people that know them well but often are in other classes. We have a lot of real experts in the early cars, historians authors etc. Later cars there is a shortage of knowledgeable people.

I am the IAC/PFA board member who represents the later cars and we have a real shortage of people for all of those. Some models are very well covered and several less so.

 

John you would not lose any points for having the front clip repainted as long as the colour match was spot on.
How many Ferrari's over the age of 10 years or so haven't had some stone chip repairs done just by the nature of the exposed, low front bodywork. Very few.
Most traded in Ferraris get a blow over before they are detailed and displayed in the showroom.
A new owner may never even realised it has had anything done.

 

I went looking for these (to the OP) because I well agree they can get pretty knackered, but maybe refinishing the old ones (silver anodized) is the way to go??

The door sills are a complicated profile, although I would bet it's a known extrusion profile.
Here's an extra set from my 1977...…

I had a Body Stop stomp on mine while they were off the car, and I bought these but never installed, as they have some gouges too.....
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Don't forget the window fuzzy is NOT part of the chrome bead strip, you have to pop rivet two pieces on, at once!!

Later years, the rubber wipe combined it with the chrome bead.
Better solution, to be sure!!!
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I think there is a disconnect on the perception what is a Ferrari platinum award and what is a concour condition car described by valuation sites(Hagerty) and auction houses (1000 pts being absolute perfection).

I've seen some of these platinum cars and they don't look like new cars, but it's not what the FCA wants as their standard. It is what it is.

 

When I think of a 100 point FCA Platinum awarded Ferrari I imagine a car that is 100% correct as far as originality goes but can show hints of patina, especially if it's over 20 years or more.

Others may think of a 100% perfect car with every single part as it just came out of a box and without a single blemish on the paint. I look at that as an amazing restoration.

There is a fine line between the two.

 

As much as the Ferrari clubs are (apparently) supposed to only judge originality, all judging has a subjective element. It sure seems like that above 97 points, clean and shiny influences the judges.

The newer the car, the less likely there will be anything causing deductions. I am not sure what the purpose is of bringing a 458 or 488 to a concours.

I get a 1/2 point deduction for "paint" on my car and I'll be darned if I can figure out what they mean.

 

3 points total for paint. If you strip it to bare metal it is a 3 point deduction and can still win Platinum. I was talking to a group and someone said they got 1 point deducted for paint. I asked if it was a red car with a purple fender? 1 point is a serious deduction. 1/2 a point needs to be a significant deficiency. A bar repair but definitely not typical rock chips.

 

At Cavallino, at least one car lost points for Sticky parts

 

A correction to your first statement. The judging process I speak of was created by the IAC/PFA. It is an independent organization. Ferrari Club of America at the national level uses that system and so does Cavallino. Around the country at other FCA events all manner of systems are used. No one forces them to do anything. A Platinum from a club event in New Jersey or California can be anything. We are doing everything possible to reduce the subjectivity at the national level. Wear and tear can be subjective and can reduce owners desire to use the car, not what we want. Originality isn't subjective.