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Average Income of Ferrari Owners in USA?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by leroy105, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

    Aug 2, 2015
    1,320
    Somis, CA
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    Randy
    That is what I would call a “plan” foregoing some expenses to afford other expenses. Acting in a rational manor and not in an emotional manor.
     
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  3. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
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    Certainly true for most people, but in my case it was a need decision. :D
     
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  4. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 6, 2003
    22,672
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Ryan Alexander
    Try a California T and a 12-15 458. Get the CPO and put as many miles on it as you can.

    As others have noted the car isn’t instantly worth zero, your actual costs in the long run are only depreciation, interest and acquisition costs, warranty and maintenance. You have gas and insurance charges for any vehicle.
     
  5. robstand

    robstand Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 13, 2019
    63
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Robert S.
    I am in a similar situation as you, except I'm 10 years older. Double income, no kids, high cost of living area (Seattle). Our net is in the range of yours. I paid $465k for my house and it's worth $800k now. I bought a CPO 2015 California T from a Ferrari dealer with a 2 year New Power warranty for $138k in July. With Washington tax and title, the total was right at $150k. I sold my other collector cars and put the proceeds (about $50k) toward a down payment and financed $100k at 3.8%. My investments are earning a return better than that, so I felt borrowing made more financial sense.

    The car you linked is gorgeous and seems to be a very nice spec. Carbon steering wheel, red trim, red seat belts all indicate that someone wanted a car specific to their tastes, and if you share that taste, go for it. Also, the miles are very low. Buying a Cali T in winter seems like a smart idea.

    I've put almost 3k miles on my car since it got here on July 10, and I am pretty happy. In fact, it's sunny here today so I think I'll go for a drive.

    (I realize I could have gotten a better rate if I shopped around, but I was a bit overcome by excitement.)
     
  6. ssgharkness020147

    ssgharkness020147 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2006
    299
    Midwest
    Believe me when I say I understand not every owner is an 8+ figure net worth owner. But the sheer number of Illinois home owners now here now is incredible. I’m not in Geneva, I’m inland, but there’s certainly worse places to rip a car around than lake Geneva during the summer! The concentration of wealth brought to the area I grew up in is astounding. Some are industrious new money, others are very old money. I’d love own a home where I grew up at some point but I’ll need to keep scrapping money together in order to do so. Oh well, I’m enjoying gentleman farming for now.

     
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  8. ssgharkness020147

    ssgharkness020147 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2006
    299
    Midwest
    Lake Geneva is considered the crown jewel to many. I knew an old man growing up Ed, whose family had a left Lake Geneva the 1920’s as they felt it had become to crowded and came inland to the area I grew up. A newer resident from the burbs of Chicago told me that many others from Chicago are preferring the inland area to Lake Geneva because of how kitschy Lake Geneva is. Nightlife, restaurants etc at a minimum slow down if not shutdown for the winter in Geneva, whereas here everything keeps moving, thus the appeal to the area.

    Secretly, I kind of think that a 12+ million dollar home on Lake Geneva is not only outrageous but perhaps out of many peoples reach now coming to this area. The area I grew up in is the Lake Country area, in between Milwaukee and Madison. During the industrial revolution many of the brewery families came here, along with a host of other industry families. They bought large sections of land and built compounds, complete with gatekeepers, fully staffed farms for food, horse carriage/keepers homes and homes for each of the family members. Unlike Geneva, it’s not exciting to drive around, sure you can see slivers of homes and the lakes but it’s far from the full experience. It’s still as private as it was 100 years ago when the area was new. Today the old compounds have long since been split up but are still secluded private property. I think it’s fun to risk poison ivy to explore. There’s still one of the root cellars in the woods near the home I grew up in, a dilapidated bridge still stands between my parents house and the neighbors. People still come back whose families have been there for 100 years, it’s a ritual for those people. Some are not much to my liking, but others are very enjoyable to talk with about the lake and their families histories with the area. I’ll try and find a link to PM you with photos of the area in its heyday.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. leroy105

    leroy105 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2021
    21
    #107 leroy105, Jan 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
    Update: I've got 2016 911 coming from FL from (*shudder*...) Carmax; somehow these guys have a really seriously good price on this car. There's not a ton of CPO 911 cabriolets sitting in the Midwest:

    https://www.carmax.com/car/19965114

    Never thought I'd be considering a car from CarMax!

    (Somehow this thing still has a CPO, and all the chatter is that the CarMax warranty is super solid -- 5 years (from purchase!) / 125,000 miles -- $4,500.... come on now....? I'm thinking either the 75k or 100k tops.).

    https://jalopnik.com/my-range-rover-s-carmax-warranty-is-now-half-over-and-i-1733772237 (Go read this guy for a laugh. Porsche forums at Rennlist have a ton of guys with solid reviews in Carmax warranties. Evidently they really underprice Mercedes & BMW warranty costs -- the Range Rover story is epic).

    ---

    Once this pony comes in to the local CarMax, my missus and I will drive it and go drive the Ferrari from Lake Forest and I'll let her come to Jesus.

    Question: on the California, you think pushing for 10% list for a used one from a dealer is out of this world? Do they work on higher margins than Porsche / BMW / Mercedes on the used ones?

    Other option we sat in was a SL550, which I liked too (and fit in headspace wise), but for the extra $20k a 911 costs and future depreciation on the SL550, I think it's a wash. SL550 would be a good touring car though.
     

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  10. ssgharkness020147

    ssgharkness020147 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2006
    299
    Midwest
    I got 6% off, CPO extended warranty and the dealer ate shipping costs. One could probably do a bit better, but I was happy and don’t think I faired poorly on the deal.
     
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  11. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

    Jul 19, 2006
    10,801
    FL and NC
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    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    I think the main problem in your scenario is wanting a California as your first Ferrari. :D
     
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  13. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
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    I cannot believe it took 100+ posts for someone to make that remark!
    T
     
  14. Admiral Goodwrench

    Admiral Goodwrench Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2005
    512
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
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    Robert Phillips
    Leroy105,

    I need to add one more data point to your original posting question. My annual income when I bought my first Ferrari was $3,432. The loan I took out to buy the car was for $2,400 and I paid $2,225 for the car. I suspect that will change your average a bit. It was a 5 speed manual.

    Best regards,

    Robert
     
  15. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    5,728
    Weston, MA
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    Robert, how so irresponsible. I hope HelenAnn gave you hell for that purchase! :D
     
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  16. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    22,620
    DFW, Texas
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    Tom C
    @leroy105

    This is the car in question in case you haven't seen it...

    https://petrolicious.com/films/this-is-the-admiral-s-ferrari-500-mondial

    T
     
  17. Admiral Goodwrench

    Admiral Goodwrench Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2005
    512
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Robert Phillips
    Dear Paul,

    It was too late, I bought the car in June 1960 and did not meet HelenAnn until May 1961. By then I had already gotten it fixed and running and raced.

    Best regards,

    Robert
     
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  18. randkin

    randkin Formula 3

    Aug 2, 2015
    1,320
    Somis, CA
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    Randy
    Ah yes but what is that in today’s dollars. As I recall in 1964 when the Mustang came out my folks got one for around $3k. So likely you got it before that. But then everyone could work on their cars with simple tools and most folks did - know I did and I wasn’t any great wrench either. What do you do I hear:rolleyes:
     
  19. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    22,620
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    Tom C
    Get the car, then get the woman!

    That'd be good advice for the other thread where an F-chatter was trying to figure out how to justify an F-car purchase to his wife! :D

    T
     
  20. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,695
    ny
    few years back, porsche asked me to do some owner surveys for them and one of the results i got back was average yearly income for 991tts owner was just over $1m. i couldnt believe how high that was for a car that was under 200k at the time. but that was the result i was given.
     
  21. leroy105

    leroy105 Rookie

    Jan 15, 2021
    21
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  22. Admiral Goodwrench

    Admiral Goodwrench Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2005
    512
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Robert Phillips
    Leroy105,

    You might also like this one
     
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  23. DOWORKFCAR

    DOWORKFCAR Karting

    Oct 15, 2016
    238
    Cleveland, OH
    All good advice here. Truly if the maintenance is scaring you then pass on the car. To own one of these cars you have to be fully immersed in the ownership and dream. So when problems arise, expensive ones, it’s worth it. You won’t even question the bill, because the experience is worth it. Don’t over think the numbers, you’ll be just fine and I promise you that you’ll enjoy many other things in life. Always be prepared for a $30K bill, then floor it!
     
  24. john a barnes

    john a barnes Karting

    Dec 19, 2018
    122
    muskego wi
    Full Name:
    John a Barnes
    I'm just a mechanic. I averaged only 50k a year. I always saved my pennies and then paid cash for cars. My ace in the hole is a home shop to make the extra dough necessary for fun stuff. That was 18-20 a year extra. Also fixed and flipped a lot of cars. Paid off the house in 7 years. Bought another house with cash and rent it out. I paid cash for a nice 348. Never buying a NEW car is the way to go IMHO. I put more than a few dollars in Amazon also. How much do you really need? Just work hard for it.
     
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  25. Admiral Goodwrench

    Admiral Goodwrench Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2005
    512
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Robert Phillips
    John,

    "just a mechanic" what a massive understatement. You are the salt of the earth, mechanics make the world go round, mechanics are problem solvers. Just imagine where we would be without mechanics.

    I would aspire to be called a mechanic!

    Best regards,

    Robert
     
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  26. Pinab7

    Pinab7 Rookie

    Jun 4, 2018
    14
    Full Name:
    Joe Veranth
    I was not comfortable buying an exotic until its cost was LESS THAN 2% of my net worth.
     
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  27. Pro Bono

    Pro Bono Rookie

    Aug 30, 2020
    17
    I've also been contemplating buying a California, and I've also gone through the same soul-searching as to whether I can justify spending around £70k ($100k) on something that's of virtually no practical use at all.

    But I've decided to go ahead, and the justifications that I used may help you.

    1. Someone pointed out that it's not really spending £70k. In my head I was thinking I was just blowing £70k, but of course you're acquiring an asset that is, at least initially, actually worth £70k. If you sell it after a year for £60k the only real cost (apart from running costs) is £10k, and it's a lot easier to persuade yourself to spend £10k than £70k!

    2. There's a comment upthread from someone who said that they want to make their money work for them, and they couldn't justify sinking that much into a depreciating asset. But that is totally missing the point. You aren't buying a Ferrari in the same way you're buying shares in Amazon. You're buying it for the joy of seeing it in your garage every morning; of dropping the hood on a lovely spring day and feeling the sun on your face while listening to that gorgeous V8; of driving it on a sweeping and deserted road on a warm summer's evening. These are wonderful experiences, that make your life more enjoyable. You get none of that looking at a share certificate!

    3. A Ferrari will be expensive on a per mile basis, there's no doubt about it. But it's pointless to compare the expense per mile with your Toyota. You incur the expense with your Toyota because you have to get from A to B. It's therefore an unavoidable expense, and is simply another drain on your income, like a utility bill. But with your Ferrari you're paying for the experience of driving it. If it costs you £100 to drive it 100 miles it'll be a really enjoyable 100 miles, so look at it like paying £100 for a meal in a restaurant. You don't resent spending it because it brings you a positive and hopefully memorable experience.

    4. If you don't spend the money on a Ferrari what else would you spend it on? I'm a long term investor, and I have on several occasions made investments that have turned out to be dogs and disappeared down the drain., I could have bought a Ferrari with that money, lost a hell of a lot less and had a hell of a lot more enjoyment from the money. And even if the investment does well it only matters if you're planning to spend it one day or leave it to your kids. I don't have any kids, and I'm damn sure I'll never spend all my capital even if I live to 100, so why seek to increase or at least preserve it at the cost of denying you some pleasure now?

    5. Finally, and the best argument of all, is what a couple of others have said, namely that the old cliché that life is not a rehearsal is absolutely true. We all think we're immortal, and that we have an infinite amount of time to achieve an ambition, but we don't. We may only have 10 years, a year or even a week to do so. It's not so much the risk of dying before you achieve it - at least you'd never know! - but suddenly finding that you've reached a stage in your life where you no longer want to do it, which is in some ways even sadder.

    Oh, and in response to the usual snarky comments about Californias not being real Ferraris, being only suitable for women etc, etc, there are many people (me being one of them) who, whilst admiring high end Ferraris don't actually want to own one. I have driven some of them and unless you're an expert driver (which I'm not) they are actually quite hard work. I want a car that I can relax in and enjoy driving at normal speeds on normal roads (UK roads being notoriously bumpy!) not a car that's really more at home on a racetrack. I don't criticise you for wanting such a car, if that's what makes you happy, so why are you so keen to put down those of us who also love Ferraris and are excited by the prospect of owning one even if it is, in your eyes, an inferior model? Can't you just be happy for us?

    So, Leroy, I'm going ahead and I hope you do as well - I'm pretty sure that neither of us will regret it, but if we do we can come back and report!
     
  28. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    10,695
    ny
    I dont think its necessary to be worth 10m prior to owning a used ferrari
     
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