Aviation science question, please! | FerrariChat

Aviation science question, please!

Discussion in 'Aviation Chat' started by Sindance, Dec 23, 2007.

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  1. Sindance

    Sindance Rookie

    Dec 23, 2007
    3
    Happy Holidays all! I had an odd experience involving a large, passenger jet yesterday and need to understand the science so everyone at work stops laughing at me!
    I live in Phoenix, AZ. The I10 and 202 frwys run right under the air space for our large, local airport. Yesterday at 4:15 pm 12/22 I was traveling east bound on the I10 near the 143 (airport freeway), at about 70-75 mph.. i witnessed something i have never seen in my 46 yrs and it was incredible, but when i mentioned it at work last night everyone said i was nuts, lol.. I just thought it was something I had never had an opportunity to witness but everyone at work says it is not possible, I only mentioned it because it was so cool, lol.
    There was a large, passenger jet sitting stationary in the sky to the west (i think, lol) of me. It was low enough to actualize its size and all windows were clear enough to view, so i dont know what altitude this might have been, maybe 500-1,000 ft?
    As I noticed it, approached it, passed by it and even viewed it several times after passing it, it never moved.. i moved, obviously everything around me changed as my car drove along the freeway, but the jet never moved. it was like it was just parked there, in mid air, lol.. i just assumed it was waiting for clearance to land, as the holidays are so busy for airport traffic. it was just such an incredible and new site, that i was in awe and just enjoyed it, thats why i kept watching it (probably not safe to do at 70 mph, lol).. it never moved forward to cross over the freeway, it never changed altitude, it was just parked there, lol.. in mid air and i found it facinating so i casually mentioned at work what a fun thing it was to see, it was new and interesting..
    Everyone tells me i am nuts, that a large, passenger plane cannot possibly just "park" in mid air, and not that low... even at the time, i remember thinking how it was like it was just suspended on invisible string or like a stick shift (i drive one, lol) one can balance the gas and clutch to keep the car stationary on an incline.
    Again, in those 2 minutes it never moved, never crossed over the freeway or changed altitude..i approached it, drove by it and passed it and it never moved, at all.. Between the angle of the jet, and the angle of the freeway, we were almost traveling in opposite horizontal paths (if i were traveling straight, the jet was traveling at a 30 degree angle based on its nose), but the jet was so close to the frwy it would have had to cross it, even at an angle in those 2 minutes (i have passed over this exact path many times coming back to Phoenix on flights from Vegas) (by the way, i was not on a curve, but a straight away on the freeway)
    Please explain to me that a jet can indeed do this so everyone at work stops laughing at me, lol..
    Thank you for this information, because i know what i saw and still think it was really cool...
    Toni
     
  2. Skyraider

    Skyraider Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    620
    Toni,
    Sorry, I'm afraid they're still going to laugh....

    In all my years on this earth, and in aviation, I have never heard of a jet with that capability.

    What I do know though:

    Two objects on a collision course, appear not to move in relation to each other.

    While flying, an other aircraft will seem to remain the same size and then
    [just before colliding] all of a sudden, "Bloom". ( fill the windscreen suddenly)

    An aircraft on final approach, can be travelling at 160 mph, and on a five mile final would take approx 2 or so, minutes to land. Your guy could have been a bit farther out....

    Perhaps the situation you experienced was one or a combo of these phenomenem.

    Smaller planes, at lower speeds, can appear to fly backwards from the ground, if there are headwinds greater than their forward speed, but I doubt there were wind speeds of 160 mph, at 500 - 1000 feet.


    Charlie

    .
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2000
    63,968
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    As Charlie said, optical allusion from angles of plane and you it wasn't moving. Jets approach at very low speeds and although airspeed is the same, with a strong headwind the ground speed will be lower and how fast it moves over land can be slow. Larger jets appear slower and some have lower approach speeds, jets approach DFW over our house at 2000 AGL and the 747's appear like they are barely moving.

    When getting my tailwheel we had a 35 kt. headwind and got the Citabria to move backwards over the ground for a negative ground speed.
     
  4. planeflyr

    planeflyr Karting

    May 27, 2006
    174
    It was probably the new passenger jet version of the Harrier.

    Either that or you have just entered the Twilight Zone.

    Bartender... cut him off!

    Just having a little fun with ya! :)

    Planeflyr
     
  5. Sindance

    Sindance Rookie

    Dec 23, 2007
    3
    1. It was low enough to be able to size it in its actual size. As if it were a few hundred feet away from me on the ground. but probably more like 500 ft.
    2. When i first spotted the jet, its nose was at about a 75-80 degree angle to my car, as I continued to drive, as if the plane did not move, it seemed we became more horizontal because as i drove past, i could see the side of the plane clearer, but the plane didnt seem to be moving, "i" was driving by it. The last time I looked back we were at the almost same angle facing different directions.
    3. It was so close to the freeway, that even at 160 mph it should have crossed over the highway or at least been right above the freeway during those 2 mins but never changed where it was.. it was still positioned at the same point west of the frwy as when i first saw it..
    4. So even with my speed of 70-75 mph and the jets possible speed of over twice that, even if i could not see it moving, shouldn't the jet have changed its position in relation to the objects below?? As in passed over things below it? It appeared to be "right" next to the frwy because it was so low.
    5. I dont drink, use drugs or have any psychological family history, LOL
    Again, I fly oten commercially, have lived around many large airports in my life, thus driven under much commercial airspace, spent a lot of time as a kid at a small airport because my brother was fascinated with planes, and never saw anything like this before, lol..
    This was one of the large airliners jets, I dont think they would have any "new" planes, lol..

    I really appreciate the posts, thanks guys..
    Toni
     
  6. Skyraider

    Skyraider Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2005
    620


    Well we don't have the technology yet to produce the Harrier 300 Passenger jet,
    The one we (collectively) have, barely flies with one highly trained person aboard...

    Maybe it was one of those paintings that follow your movements ....??

    Um... OK then..... it was ..... the Twighlight Zone"!

    I liked that explanation, best of all!

    Bottom line, even though you don't wish to admit it, is ....
    You didn't see, what you thought you saw.
    That doesn't mean you are crazy.
    Long time pilots have gone through some hallucinating experiences too.

    Landing at night, we percieve the ground to be closer than it really is.
    It takes time to learn to accept that you really CAN see things that aren't.

    It is all in, the way our brains, process the info we collect Think about watching a Magic Show.... The box was empty... We did see the guy get into the box... the girl came out of the box. we know it is impossible, yet that IS what we saw.

    Our brains recieve the INCORRECT, or incomplete info, and process it as if it were correct.

    BUT WE KNOW, WHAT WE SAW!!!!

    Move on to more important things...... like? Oh.....? World peace??

    Cheers
    Charlie





    ...
     
  7. Sindance

    Sindance Rookie

    Dec 23, 2007
    3
    i wont pursue it, i know what i saw and it was very cool and never saw anything like it before.. and to my grave, that frcking jet was just parked there in the sky, LOL... i remember exactly thinking at the time, jets dont do that in mid air, lol. someone else on that freeway must have seen it also?? lol
    lol... so we will leave it at that... thanks for the replies i appreciate same.. good to know jets cant do that, lol
    i wont bother contacting the airport because they would lie even if it was real.
    but it was still way cool to see, lol..
    Merry Chrismas to all and Happy New Year!
    Toni
     

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