Yep exactly. I had the opportunity to talk to Jackie Stewart once and asked him about a story my dad had told me about him and Jim Clark driving to Indy one year I think they were coming from Chicago... they got to a large rail road crossing and Clark stopped and said " do you think its ok" Stewart said " Ok to do what?" "Cross the tracks"... Stewart confirmed that would happen all the time... that Clark was indecisive in his personal life, and could not make decisions, or have any sense of his own value, or ability. When he moved to Paris Jabby Crombac was the one who took it upon himself to educate Clark on life - and living and becoming a Gentlemen of means... in 68 he was growing his hair longer and becoming more relaxed... but still was the nervous type.. at Hockenheim the night before he got killed, Dan Gurney said that he was tired and irritable, and did not want to be there but that Colin had made him go.... He was the last gentleman driver. I've always thought it seemed like a story of a deal with the devil .... comes from nowhere to the very top and is gone at the height right when he started to enjoy life.
I think once Senna got to Lotus he was able to show how good he really was, and was usually in the top 5 every race - unless the car broke. in 86 and 87 when Lotus was going in the wrong direction, I think Senna drove some of his best races. He put an underdog car where it did not belong... on a routine basis. When he got to McLaren the challenge of being at the front was not so hard, but dominating Prost in the team is what drove him. He let it consume him to show that he was the better driver and that the team was his. This is what he learned from Prost in 88. Prost it has to be remembered could have been champion in 82, 83, 84 as well as 85 & 86. That he did not win a championship with Renault - was down to Renault and not Prost. Prost was THE driver in the early 80's. After Pironi's accident, he was the leading French Driver. Arnoux took points away from Prost that could have seen the first French World Champion in 82. Prost was by far THE driver to beat until Senna. Senna just had to conquer Prost in McLaren.
The second video you show is the start of the Prost V Senna battle. It's sad how it ended, and that Prost got the worst of it in the media and Press. Prost was a strange character. he was super aloof and extremely private, you would almost never see him in the paddock and then he would just show up in the garage. he did not linger and talk to the press much... he was in and out. but he did spend time in the garage with the engineers, working on the smallest things. I ran into him once in Detroit in the hotel, he got on an elevator and it was just him and his physio. I spoke to him in French, and he was almost embarrassed. At the time I thought he was arrogant, but now I realize he was just under stress. his fingernails were horrible - almost non-existent and he would chew them till they bled. Senna was usually in the paddock - McLaren Marlboro hospitality tent at 7:15 Am till about 8:45. you could almost set your clock on when you would see him and his brother, Jo Ramieriz and his engineer - Steve Hallum ( I think ) would come in. He had his briefcase, and it would open and he'd take out his notebook, and then they would talk... He ate fresh fruit and some kind of porridge... I hated it ... Almost never saw Prost before 9AM. I'd usually sit by the entrance of the tent, next to the host station... Marielle & Anne Richards were super nice to me, so I would get free coffee and breakfast for me and my dad...only stipulation no pictures till after 10 AM.
Prost had been at McLaren for a few years, and Ron Dennis now was looking for a competitive #2, after Johansson, and Rosberg. It was Prost who told Ron Dennis to contact Ayrton Senna, who was looking for a better car than his Lotus. Prost had no problem having a challenging team mate, unlike Senna who blocked Derek Warwick at Lotus, preferring the inexperienced Johnny Dumfries. They met and a deal was done, Senna assuming he had been selected on merit alone. Prost kept a low profile during the negotiations. So Senna arrived at McLaren, only to findi out after a while that he had the drive on Prost recommendation; he found that very humiliating. That set the atmosphere between the 2 drivers. Senna was incensed to find he owed his seat to his team mate and, from now on, did his utmost to upstage him. The Prost-Senna rivalry was entertaining for a few years, continuing even when Prost left McLaren.
Prost and Senna had completely different ways to work fbefore a GP. Prost was methodical and very meticulous in the way he set up his car, working at obtaining a car that would be fast but relatively easy to drive for the whole duration of the race. Most of the preparation was directed to chassis set up. So Prost would sacrifice some performance aspects, but concentrate on others where it would make a difference over the distance. Prost didn't necessarily aim for pole, which was secundary for him; grid positions were less important then than they are now, In the opposite, Senna prepared his car to be fastest in all circumstances, working on different settings for qualifications and race. This was time consumming for him and his mechanics. Senna was fastidious and gave great importance to power delivery, spending many hours analysing data with Honda engineers to optimise the engine mapping according to track layout, weather conditions, etc ... So what was decided one day after hours of effort, could be undone the next if rain came, or the temperature dropped, etc ... It was rumoured inside McLaren that Senna constantly courted the Honda engineers in view to obtain the best engines. The dyno tests figures for each engine were not communicated by Honda to McLaren, to avoid favoritism. Senna kept trying to get that information in hope of gaining an advantage over his rival.
This thread has caused me to re-evaluate my estimation of Prost as a driver. I think my view of him was colored by his clashes with Senna- something he didn't instigate. Looking back he may be on par with the greatest F1 drivers of all time. The other thing that is interesting is how much the cars of that era resembled Karts. So much smaller and more nimble than the cars we see today.
Absolutely true, Best example of this is the story told by Johnny Rives, former L’équipe’s journalist about Mexican GP in 1990. Prost qualified his Ferrari at a dreadful 13th position for the GP and the Sunday morning before the race, Rives saw Prost at the Hotel and asked him if he wasn’t too disappointed by his performance during qualifying. With a big smile ( Rives words) Prost answered him« absolutely not, my car is absolutely perfect for the race, I will win today.. » To my opinion, his most impressive performance during his whole career..
This, from a man (Prost) who claimed never driving at 100% after the accident at Hockenheim in 1982 that ended Pironi's career. Prost was methodical in his preparation, efficient yet economical in his effort; still, he was often the fastest. He was a thinking driver; no wonder they called him "The Professor". He is my favourite driver of all time.
This ! I clearly remember him stating after Pironi’s accident in 1982 that he decided to become world champion driving his car at 80% percent of his capacities.. I have some hope young generation of viewers will realize the story with Senna wasn’t about a simplistic manicheism..
I think another reason that Senna has been deified was that he was so good looking and charismatic. The press will often be swayed by charm more than skill. And dying young doesn't hurt (as is also true of pop stars and actors).
I had not heard that story to that detail, I think most people knew of Senna's ability by then. I was always under the impression that Sochiro Honda pushed for Senna at McLaren when they got the Honda engine in 88. I believe that Honda and Senna became closer while at Lotus, and that Nakajima introduced the two at the Japanese GP. Honda loved RC cars and planes, and Senna loved RC Helicopters... that is what I have heard ( from a former Lotus Mechanic who went by the name "Digger"... I cant for the life of me remember is real name... super guy, and he worked on Senna's car at Lotus... He would tighten the belts for Senna and do the front left wheel change.
Alain Prost has been hugely mischaracterized - mostly by the British media.... in my opinion. He was the heir to Jackie Stewart. Smart, intelligent, and always fast. in 93 - arguably one of his strongest years all people remember is Senna's race at Donnington. Yet, Prost won the championship after sitting a year out, and tamed a wild car - the fully active car that Williams made.... while most people think because the car was so advanced it was easy - ask Damon Hill, and he'll tell you how hard that car was to drive, as it did not do what "normal" cars did ... Prost was immediately able to cope and set the car up. To me the most amazing year was 1990 when he was at Ferrari... he took a wreck of a team, and literally won the championship - if not for the crash in Japan. Had Ferrari not fallen behind with John Barnard leaving etc... and the politics between Piero Ferrari and Fusaro, they could have beaten McLaren ... Prost was caught in the middle of all those politics and still managed to finish 2nd.... He routinely won races by stealth and cunning... managing the car. He was truly amazing that year. For me the best race I ever saw him drive was Silverstone 90 - he was just so smooth, and relentlessly fast. the following race at Paul Ricard was the turning point at Ferrari... Piero and Mansell had broken the team over Barnard and Steve Nichols... to the detriment of the team. Any of Prost's early races with Renault are very good - in not-so-good equipment. His 84 season was one of the best ever... and he learned so much from Lauda that year. In my opinion Prost is far better than Senna, he was a gentleman driver - and ruthless... I cant really recall any accident he was involved in that he caused by over driving the car or run into others like Senna did.... Prost had his fair share of spins and issues but he was not a dirty driver. to me that is WAY more important than outright speed. Prost came up when F-1 was lethal... ( so did Senna - but Senna had a weird belief that said he was invincible) Prost always respected other drivers..... Senna not.
Prost said Piquet was first choice for Mclaren and Honda. According to him he strongly pushed for Senna instead of Piquet because Prost thought Senna was a better choice for Mclaren’s future. His own words.
I was at the Castellet in 1990. He was really pushing the last few laps to overtake Capelli and his Leyton-House designed by Adrian Newey.. So smooth when pushing hard, clean trajectories etc.. This guy was not only smart but also highly skilled.
I watched every one of both Senna’s and Prost’s races. Trust me, there was plenty of ****** to go around with the both of them. Prost was no more mannered on and off track than Senna. You were talking about two huge personalities being forced to share the same limelight. Senna is one of the greatest drivers I’ve ever seen. Prost was remarkably smooth and consistent. I wouldn’t trade watching them both in their prime for anything. As to the OP, don’t let others here sway your opinion of either driver. Watch their battles, and remarkable drives and make your own decision. I don’t think Senna was any more aggressive than Mansell, or Lauda, or Schumacher, or Max.
I don't know of any moments where Lauda or Mansell were under scrutiny for what seemed like intentionally taking out rivals.
I agree that Senna had more attention from the Stewards, but I do feel some of it was political under that regime. Under todays F1 there would’ve been a frame by frame analysis of whether his front axle was far enough along side Prost’s car, what was the steering angle, throttle input, 100 different camera angles etc etc. Instead it’s generally accepted that Senna just flat out crashed into Prost into turn one. If you watch it under today’s scrutiny he seemed to try to go up the inside and Prost tried to turn into the apex and they collided. Think about the Copse episode with Max and Hamilton and then apply it to some of Senna’s mishaps. No question Senna was not going to lift, but at least he was honest enough to say it. Todays drivers just say “oh I didn’t intentionally clip Max”
Yes, it was a great race. I watched most of it at Cygnes... and for the last 30 min walked back to the pit lane, and was waiting at pit out when he won the race...
I will disagree with you on that. Senna certainly was way more aggressive and dangerous than Lauda and Mansell. Verstappen and Schumacher probably not. If you have watched all of Senna's races, then you will see how aggressive he was.... Australia in the wet is an excellent example.... there was no reason to run into the back of a back marker ... that was all him. Prost never did things like that. Mansell - was cheeky here and there.... blocking but he did not run people off the road or torpedo them into an accident. All that bad driving behavior we have today started with Senna .... and the Myth of his " invincibility". Senna at his prime is NOT the Senna when he was at McLaren.... Look to Toleman and Lotus.
The joys of this world, we all see things differently and needn’t agree. I never saw Senna as dangerous per se. He was certainly aggressive, but that is not untypical for Latin Drivers.
I see what you're saying and I think it's all just trashy driving, whether it's done by Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, or Verstappen. Senna established the "if you no longer go for a gap" mantra that completely lacks any nuance and is parroted by every hack behind a wheel to try to justify poor overtaking.
