1. Harley Davidson competed and regularly won against BSA, Triumph, Yamaha, & Honda throughout the 60's, 70's, and 80's. At that time flat track and TT was a premier series. 2. 250cc championships were in the '70's with Walter Villa, competing against many Japanese and European manufacturers. 3. The V-Rod pro stock bike is also a one-off, but conforms to the rules and competes against the Japanese manufacturers. The Spiderman and Trett were Top Fuel, where nitro methane and 1200 horsepower are the norm. Pro stock is completely different and more competitive class. 4. Board tracks were huge events back in the day, the equivalent of supercross or X-games today. They would do nearly 100 mph on banked 1/4 mile tracks with a thin leather helmet. Many riders died racing this way, and you could argue founded the death-defying mystique of motorcycles that they still have today. 5. Their wins came at a time when the Brits were still at the top of their game. Triumph, BSA, and Norton were the Honda, Yamaha, and Ducati of their day. BTW, Ducati has never won the 200. General Comment to 1-5: I thought you wanted history?
WOW, I never realized how extensive their racing history was LOL. My point is still that Harley Davidsons are an inferior motorcycle by TODAYS standards. They DO NOT handle well. They DO NOT brake well. They add danger to an already dangerous motorcycle passion.
You definately don't get a Harley for performance. I was out in m 930 on a highway and passed a bunch of Harley riders like they were standing still, I got caught in traffic when the road turned to 2 lanes and they caught up with me and one guy was riding right on my azz hitting the throttle trying to intemidate me on a new softtail, I saw my chance to pass the traffic ahead of me and hit it hard and I could see his jaw drop as my 930 was so fast and he couldn't stay with me. I slowed down and let him catch me and smoked him 3 separate times, totally wasting him then slowing down to let him catch up, he was pissed also and I kept looking over at him laughing as I pulled away each time, I was actually suprised I could beat him so easily as a motorcycle has a good power to weight ratio and the softtails are around 80hp but thats a Harley.
Harley performance is a joke, aside from acceleration, they can't turn either. There aren't many cars that couldn't beat one in a race.
just a note In my former life when I used to be a salvaged car rebuilder, at the auctions there were always bikes. A lot of bikes. and at least half had the paper plate from the dealer. so someone just bought it, could not handle it and wreaked it. and proabaly got hurt in the process. I think bikes are not like cars I think you can go from a civic to a viper and not wreak. but from nothing to a 1600 cc bike, like a ton of people do, cause they wouldnt want to be seen on a 600. are just asking for it. and some, from my paragraph above, get it. I think that limiting license like they have in europe is a great idea. john
I like that, but there would be too much crying about the government taking away our "civil liberties" or some other B.S. like that. Also, go ask 100 people at a local Harley infested bike night about their racing history. 95 will not be able to give you a real answer. The other 5 will be too drunk to answer.
National Championships? Harley-Davidsons Scott Parker broke the string with five straight championships between 1994 and 1999 in Flat-Track racing. Throughout the 1990s, as Harley-Davidson continued to dominate dirt track racing, Harley-Davidson also fielded an AMA Superbike program from 1994 through 2001. Though AMA bikes did not fare as well as hoped, they led to the development of the V-Rod which whart tipped his hat, er, helmet, er, hat to. H-D has 14 of 15 years of GRAND NATIONAL CHAMPIONS on Flat Track: 1990 Scott Parker Harley-Davidson 1991 Scott Parker Harley-Davidson 1992 Chris Carr Harley-Davidson 1993 - It wasn't Ducati, either 1994 Scott Parker Harley-Davidson 1995 Scott Parker Harley-Davidson 1996 Scott Parker Harley-Davidson 1997 Scott Parker Harley-Davidson 1998 Scott Parker Harley-Davidson 1999 Chris Carr Harley-Davidson 2000 Joe Kopp Harley-Davidson 2001 Chris Carr Harley-Davidson/Rotax/ATK 2002 Chris Carr Rotax/Harley-Davidson/ATK 2003 Chris Carr VOR/Rotax/Harley-Davidson 2004 Chris Carr VOR/Rotax/Harley-Davidson/KTM MANUFACTURER OF THE YEAR 1990 Harley-Davidson 1991 Harley-Davidson 1992 Harley-Davidson 1993 Harley-Davidson 1994 Harley-Davidson 1995 Harley-Davidson 1996 Harley-Davidson 1997 Harley-Davidson 1998 Harley-Davidson 1999 Harley-Davidson 2000 Harley-Davidson 2001 Harley-Davidson 2002 Harley-Davidson 2003 Harley-Davidson 2004 Harley-Davidson You seem to be fixated on AMA Superbike category, though. I don't have 2004 results, so, tough bickies. SUPERBIKE CHAMPIONS 1994 Troy Corser, Ducati 1993 Doug Polen, Ducati BATTLE OF THE TWINS GRAND PRIX/GP1 CHAMPIONS 1991 Pablo Real, Ducati 1990 Jamie James, Ducati BATTLE OF THE TWINS MODIFIED/GP2 CHAMPIONS 1991 Stephen Mathews, Ducati 1990 Fabian Cortez, Ducati Just for good measure... SUPERTWINS CHAMPIONS 1997 Eric Bostrom, Harley-Davidson 1996 Matt Wait, Harley-Davidson 1995 Scott Zampach, Harley-Davidson 1994 Shawn Higbee, Harley-Davidson 1993 Scott Zampach, Harley-Davidson 1992 Scott Zampach, Harley-Davidson 1991 Scott Zampach, Harley-Davidson 1990 Nigel Gale, Harley-Davidson Guess what bike wins the Sportster Category (which I won't list) every time? Why, Harley Davidson Sportster, of course. *chuckles* You may chuckle too, but does Ducati have a category of it's own? PRO THUNDER 2002 Kirk McCarthy, Ducati 2001 Thomas Montano, Ducati 2000 Jeffrey Nash, Ducati 1999 Shawn Conrad, Ducati SUPERBIKE MANUFACTURER CHAMPIONS 1999 Ducati 1994 Ducati 1993 Ducati Ah, I see why Ducati hasn't won a Superbike Manufacturer Championship in a while... it's younger competitors. WINS BY MANUFACTURER - SUPERBIKE (1976-2003) Pos. - Manufacturer - Wins - First Win - Last Win 1 ---- Honda -------- 106 - 6/1/1980 - 9/21/2003 2 ---- Kawasaki ------ 58 - 8/1/1977 - 6/8/2003 3 ---- Suzuki -------- 58 - 9/11/1977 - 9/20/2003 4 ---- Ducati -------- 34 - 3/11/1977 - 8/1/1999 5 ---- Yamaha ------ 16 -- 3/9/1986 - 4/6/2002 6 ---- BMW --------- 5 --- 3/5/1976 - 9/3/1978 7 ---- Moto-Guzzi --- 2 --- 6/20/1976 - 3/20/1977 So, Harley-Davidson isn't mixed in there with Superbike Manufacturer Champions anywhere... so what. Without Harley Davidson, all bikes would be years behind their current state of development. On a cautionary note, if I was you, and I'm glad I'm not, I wouldn't have one of your little giggle-fits around certain members of The uh, Wrecking Crew.
Respectfully, Ducati has won many World Superbike Championships which few would argue are less prestigious than AMA Superbike.
I'm curious, what do motorcycle enthusiasts think about those inflatable vests that they used to advertise on Speed Ch. during F1 last season? Looked cool to me, but I am not a motorcyclist.
I thought this was an open forum where peaple could voice their own opinions freely without intimidation. I guess not. From now on I will just agree with the topic. That way I can participate in the thread and not feel threatened. So much for freedom of speech.
Whatchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis? The entire post was posted with a smile on my face. It is an open forum. At the close of the voluminous post, I simply suggested you ought not consider a Lifer in the Brotherhood as open-minded as this bunch, as you'll possibly, and if so, quickly, find out what his Terms and Conditions are... and be much the worse for wear. That's all.
Flat track racing has it's place but so does WSBK. They cater to different bikes and it's no real suprise that HD dominates flat track and hill climbs. That said Ducati has won a serious number of WSBK titles and is just as successful in its arena of racing as HD is in theirs. Moreover, the VRod motor was designed bulit and assembled by Porsche. Let's not leave that out. The AMA HD SBK ride was a disaster from day one - HD can't build a competative superbike. Period. You know that's false.
\ If someone said, "Without Ferrari, all cars would be years behind their current state of development..." Would someone here disagree? Neither H-D- or Ferrari invented the motorcycle or car, but both made their mark on the track. All sorts of tracks. The tracks may be different now, even "limited" in what the team specializes in nowadays, and some may decry the "lack of progress" by sticking to certain tried and true designs, but if they examine the conquests and developments that got them there, no one can deny that other manufacturers would be at their current stage without them. ____ Arthur Davidson, of the Harley Davidson Motorcycle Corporation, dies and goes to heaven. At the gates, an angel tells Davidson, "Well, you've been such a good guy and your motorcycles have changed the world. As a reward, you can hang out with anyone you want to in Heaven." Davidson thinks about it and says, "I wanna hang out with God, Himself." The befeathered fellow at the Gates takes Arthur to the Throne Room and introduces him to God. Arthur then asks God, "Hey, aren't you the inventor of Woman?" God says, "Ah, yes." "Well," says Davidson, "you have some major design flaws in your invention: 1. There's too much front end protrusion 2. It chatters at high speeds 3. The rear end wobbles too much, and 4. The intake is placed too close to the exhaust." "Hmmm..." replies God, "hold on." God goes to the Celestial Super computer, types in a few keystrokes, and waits for the result. The computer prints out a slip of paper and God reads it. "It may be that my invention is flawed," God replies to Arthur Davidson, "But according to my computer, more people are riding my invention than yours." ____ Before there were bikini threads... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wax - That's false too. Triumph beat HD to the punch by a year, ie. 1902 Triumph v. 1903 HD. And the Orient had HD beat in 1901. HDs as novel as they were then, still broke down just as much as they do now. The Japanese, namely Honda, moved the wave front of motorcycling forward (eletric start, reliability, machining precision, etc) and in the 60's the Honda CB750 marked a new era in motorcycling. Moreover, HD's main stay product line (softtail, shovelhead, etc) hasn't developed at all since its day and HDs more modern projects have been outsourced - nothing wrong with that, but its a point worth noting. If you take apart a "modern" HD engine, you'll see the machining and assembly is just as poor as its been since day one. Without HD motorcycling would have moved along just fine.
Wax - That's false too. Triumph beat HD to the punch by a year, ie. 1902 Triumph v. 1903 HD. And the Orient had HD beat in 1901. HDs as novel as they were then, still broke down just as much as they do now. The Japanese, namely Honda, moved the wave front of motorcycling forward (eletric start, reliability, machining precision, etc) and in the 60's the Honda CB750 marked a new era in motorcycling. Moreover, HD's main stay product line (softtail, shovelhead, etc) hasn't developed at all since its day and HD's more modern projects (eg, VROD) have been outsourced - nothing wrong with that, but its a point worth noting. If you take apart a "modern" HD engine, you'll see the machining and assembly is just as poor as its been since day one. (Ever wonder why S&S motors are so popular?) Without HD motorcycling would have moved along just fine.
I'm not the fastest rider, and there is always someone faster, but..... I have never been passed by a harley on the street, on the freeway, or in the mountains. also I have not been passed on a road race course by a harley or a buel. as far as technology, when did harley's become fuel injected like my ducati? or for that matter, when did any of the other motorcycles start with the fuel injection on production bikes? and for the main topic of the thread, there are lots of baby boomer motorcycle crashes that do not lead to death and that's called job security for physical therapists.... and urologists.
Just scanned this thread. I've been riding for many years and my feeling is it's other drivers that don't see you that cause a lot of the accidents. An automobile driver is not consciously or subconciously looking for such a small object driving on the road. Over a year ago I had an accident where an SUV pulled out and was trying to beat a car coming the other way. Broke a collar bone and was wound up 90 feet down the canyon road. Luckily I walked away with minor injuries. Fortunately the F-car took the desire to ride, away. I've still got a bike but find I really don't ride anymore. My opinion is the loud cruisers are the safest to ride. People hear them and when you have the 3 lights on, like you do on a Harley Softail people see you. Anyway, I'm glad I moved on.
It is also an answer to the Social Security problem. The more who are killed the longer it will be before the system runs out of money.
older people usually are slower, have delayed reaction times and a big heavy bike does not stop/turn fast at all. if an older person has lots of experience, this may be ofset by knowing what to do. maybe older people cant react fast enough, and younger people are riding too fast in the wrong places.
Agreed. Thats why I have a cigarette machine in my office and I give coupons to the liquor store. Just one thing, we gotta kill 'em real good. Half killin' 'em will add cost to the system.
