rather 5 or 10w50 Bell, ur in UK...:)
5? Can you get 5w50 in mineral? Mineral is the point of this trial, isn't it?. I doubt many of us fire up our cars when it's freezing or below anyhow. I certainly don't. It's also mid summer here...
Ok Guys, I've been using the car driving hard etc engine sounds fine but same hot start squeek. I've had a nightmare finding a mineral oil at 10W-50 but Superformance doone at 20W-50 or there is Mobil 1 Synthetic at 10W-60, see pics. What do you think? Yes I know pull the engine and you are right but I'm tired of chasing squeeks, so I'm waiting for something more drastic to happen or not at all. My thinking now is if I have to pull the engine to find that squeek that I may not find anyway, then I might as well pull it after it's actually failed in some way. Anyway Ferrari just told me to flush the oil and put injector cleaner in it seriously! So they don't seem to be worried. :-/ Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Of those two go with the 10-60W, IMO but Mobil 1 does have a 5-50W or a 0-50W, I thought? I run Royal Purple 20-50W and beat the hell out of it, but it's warmer here in Texas. That 20-50W would be bad to use, in your winters. Go with the 10-60W, and see how it works. My engines thin oil down pretty quickly...
Well can you guess what I would recommend? Just changed the oil in my 308 QV and used the same thing I've used for the last 29 1/2 years, Pennzoil conventional 20W50 (mineral) oil. But I only drive my car from the end of April to mid November at the latest which pretty much translates to a minimum outside temperature of 40*F.
Many thanks Guys, I'm talking to Superformance on Tues about the mineral oil and also the Mobil one too. I would like to use the mineral oil but the higher viscosity at cold temps is a slight concern. The mobil is spot on at 10W 60 but is a synthetic so it still hangs in the ballance. Will keep you posted...car still working fine..
I don't understand why you would look at a 10W60. AT operating temp it is going to be more viscous that a 20W50 and cold starting with a 20Wxx should not be a problem unless really cold. What is the coldest temperature you expect to use the car in? Anyway, I tend to go with the Ferrari dealer you talked to. I don't think you really have anything to worry about. As my doctor told me once, sometimes a pain is just a pain.
I'd be far more concerned about using a synthetic than the viscosity in very cold weather. I don't see the point of choosing another synthetic. VR1 Valvoline 20/50. It's mineral & easily available. Are you planning driving around when it's -5C ambient and icy in February? If not, I don't see the problem with the 20. But if you add injector cleaner at the same time, you won't know what has worked.. hoping one or the other does.
just a stupid question. these cars,, were they not originally sold and serviced with 10w40/50 synthetic 2000 from Agip by Ferrari???
Not stupid at all (I was about to make the same comment )! The QV workshop manual specifies "Agip Sinte SAE 10W40", and the plate riveted in my 84 QV's engine compartment specifies "Agip SINT 2000 SAE 10W/50", and according to Google Translate, "sinte" is Italian for "synthetic". At least for the QV engines, one must assume that the 308 WAS designed and built for synthetic oil and the factory fill was synthetic oil.
My only thought was that the noise started after putting in the 10W-40 semi Now whilst I know I obviously have an engine problem, I was hoping that an oil that was thicker when hot migh shut it up. ie a ?W60 As regards to the whole mineral vs synthetic arguement well I'm not at allupto speed with that issue and so am taking advice and listening to opinions here. Cheers, Bell.
Bell, the 10W60 is not a bad idea at all since it would be a little more "thick" when at normal operating temp, as you mentioned - giving more protection and pressure. its more of a "RACE" oil for higher temps like when constantly revving hard, this might not solve the problem but I think we are aiming in the right direction, lets hope so.. all the best J
I was just wondering today and I remember you said the noise is absent when cold start, if the car stood a while and the oil temp drops to around 30-40 degrees C does it make the noise or is it quiet, around that temp the oil viscosity is low (pressure also low) and will pick up (thicken ) as the temp increases to 100 degrees C. (when engine running again) what I'm getting at - if it only makes the noise when warm and its caused by the oil then it happens when oil is "thicker" and pressure high,,,could it maby be an oil pump working harder when the pressure is high (oil thick ) at warm temperature. ?? just a thought... typical 10W40 to my knowledge will push around 75 - 85 mm/s2 of oil when cold (at 20-40 degrees C )so its more ' thin' and around only 14 - 17mm/s2 of oil when 'thick' at 100 degrees C.
Hi Johnny, I need to have a think about your post and am on my phone writing this. The latest news is that I have changed the oil to Mobil 1 10w60 and the squeek under Hot cranking has stopped........... Bloody hell it has confirmed for me what I have always suspected that this is an issue that this car has had since I bought it a year or so ago and that it has been masked with thicker 60 oil. Now whilst I see this as mearly a sticking plaster on an old injury, it does buy me some time and may inspire some ideas..... Interesting hey guys? All the best, Bell
Your seem to be convincing yourself that there is a problem being masked by using this or that oil when the problem was the oil. It's kind of like saying that the brakes squeal after changing brake pads so there must be something wrong with the disks. Then changing out the pads to a different compound and the squeal goes away but still insisting there is something wrong with the disks. Sound like you are becoming neurotic about this. Put it out of your mind and enjoy the car. No hit, no runs, no squeals....no problem!
Unless I am misreading this you have it backwards. Multi weight oil is thinner (lower viscosity) when hot, not thicker. Example, Amisol 20W50 has a viscosity of 129.6 centistoke at 40*C and 18.9 centistoke at 100*C.
Jonk, like you said last sentence, the 129.6 centistoke at 40C and 18.9 at 100C, the viscosity centistokes actually drops when hot or warming up to 100C. it becomes confusing with cold start multigrade / synthetic oils... you are correct, very interesting Bell, so the w60 works better, haha, this was on my mind for a while. great man !
Hi Guys thought I'd leave it a while before re-posting. So far the noise has gone. Guys as I understand it a 10W40 vs 10W60 means that the 60 oil is thicker when hot which is why the 10W40 doesnt lubricate as well when hot because it is too thin. I do think that there is a problem with my engine because as I and others have stated, these engines run on many differant oils without issue. In my case the 10W60 oil is offering a greater lubrication to an area of my head (Valve guides I think) that is enough to make it quiet when hot cranking at 200RPM. A lesson of us all there I think that a 60 oil is better than a 40....well I'm sold anyway. There is a further unconfirmed development that I'm still invesigating, it's about valve guides supplied in the wrong material... I was told by a reputable workshop that Ferrari once supplied guides made of the wrong material and to make the engine run quiet they used a thicker oil. Now obviously this is one blokes 'story' and I don't care how reputable he is there could be an element of error in it. But that said I have taken it on board. Now I've had no valve guides or head work done, but did the previous owner? There are no bills to support such work but maybe they were lost. By removing the exhaust manifolds I should be able to tell if work has been done, this I will do towards the end ofthe year. I'm still of the belief that it is/was a valve squeeking in the guide. As you know that is where the noise is coming from and by eliminating cams, then followers, the only thing left is guides/valves. BUT I have to say nobody but nobody is in agreement with me in this theory so I'm alone on this one until I prove or disprove it. So far the car starts beautifully and instantly, hot, warm or cold without hesitation. It will idle for 30mins without so much as a miss or pop from a single cylindar. It will pull 5th gear from 800rpm even when you mash the throttle to the floor at that RPM!! AND it goes like an absolute bloody rocket! So I have little to complain about, I do absolutely love this old car, it is so much fun to bomb around in and it's dry handling is very predictable even in a fast sideways drift. Wonderful.. Regards, Bell
In a way this is good news, as we say where I'm from, "run'er 'till she swallerws her own areshole." Then build a 3.5
Bell, im with you on this one and like i mentioned earlier...a thicker oil at operating temp might do it... just to ad, I got the best of both worlds, i use Fuchs 10W50 !!! on my 328, a reputable German product recommended for V8's and its better known as Titan Race full synthetic... all the best..
I read that about three times also, and thought what?? LOL Bill, now go enjoy your car, put this out of your mind or you're going to drive yourself nuts!
