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Discussion in 'F1' started by Edward 96GTS, Apr 24, 2012.
That government which governs least governs best.
Rosberg may have escaped penalty but he will soon get a taste of his own medicine.
That was great driving by Rosberg. His driving and Kimi's 2nd place victory were the only exciting moments of that dull race. The stewards were right in not penalizing Rosberg.
Lewis and Fernando will remember those moves, Karma is a *****
I think this is the right answer.
Exactly, I'll say it again it's nice to see the stewards using common sense with there rulings.
The most important part: lead driver can block to the edge of the track 1 move, however if chasing driver does a switch back, lead driver MUST leave enough room, and not block to the edge of the track again.
If LH wants to put all four wheels off track to pass, that's his business...
What about MS defense against Barichello in Hungary in 2010...Wasn;t that basically the same thing where Michael took a consisent path towards the side of the track and almost (or did) run Barichello right off the road? Did he get a penalty for that? I know everyone was upset about it, but can't remember if it was a penalty... After reading the autosport article I can understand the decision, but consistency regardless of how it looks would be appreciated...
Leaving the track to pass.........hmmmmm
Having to leave the track to avoid contact, there is a difference, read the article again to find the reason why they judged as they did.
Nico was fine. It was the decision of the other driver, not Nico, to go off-track. Alonso was just trying to call Nico's bluff in defending and Alonso took it a step further much to his own demise.
I thought the same thing until I read the stewards response. MS had RB along side him and pushed him to the wall. LH and FA were not along side, so Nico is allowed to make one blocking move to the edge of the track, which he did. It wasn't basically the same thing.
The stewards should have penalized Hamilton and Alonso for attempting a pass while not on the track. Rosberg was in front of them all the way and was fully entitled to take the line he did.
I give up....Its like banging your bloody head on a brick wall this is...
Penalize the lot then, tamper with the results out over the board room table...is that what your crying for.
HAM was clearly faster than Nico at the time, Nico was clearly driving aggressively, that negated the need for penalties, what is so hard to understand about that...
Otherwise Ham would have been told to give Nico the place back when he complained.
Otherwise Nico would have got a drive thru for shoving drivers of the track.
This is true, but seems to ignore the closing speed of the car behind. Perhaps the data review by the FIA shows is not to be as great as it appeared. While LH was not yet alongside, it appeared that he had the choice of driving off track or punting NR and likely taking them both out. I am all for hard driving, but NR was driving in his mirrors and swerving (even once, without regard for closing speed) is blocking, not racing.
With FA it was slightly less egregious, as FA was able to back out of the move albiet while off of the track having taken evasive action.
While I am fine without a drive through penalty or post race penalty, a stern word of warning from the Stewards should have been issued for failing to leave racing room within the confines of the race circuit. Without one, this type of driving will become more commonplace throughout F1 and trickle down into other forms of racing. I was disappointed in NR's driving in those two instances.
Rosberg shouldn't have gotten a penalty....
Although I remember Hamilton doing the same thing to Trulli in Monza a few years ago and everyone on here going ape**** calling for a penalty for such aggressive driving.
It was a very rough move to make - but not illegal. That's why the stewards didn't penalize for it.
Too bad MS got a penalty for the same thing at Hungary. Yes there was a wall there but Michael knew what he was doing. It's just as easy to lose it on dirt aka with Rosberg's move.
BTW I am STRICTLY against tampering with the results post race. That is a joke, the races are long enough that penalties should be given during the race if one is deserved. What is the point of the driver stewards if this isn't taking place?
Post race penalties are farcical.
20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track. Should a car leave the track the driver may rejoin, however, this may only be done when it is safe to do so and without gaining any advantage. A driver may not deliberately leave the track without justifiable reason.
20.3 More than one change of direction to defend a position is not permitted. Any driver moving back towards the racing line, having earlier defended his position off‐line, should leave at least one car width between his own car and the edge of the track on the approach to the corner.
20.4 Manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are not permitted.
I abhor post race penalties and am fine with the lack of a penalty in this case, but I think it can be argued that NR was sailing pretty close, if not over the above section of driving regs. I do still think a post race reprimand that this type of driving will not be allowed as a regular standard. Drivers should be able to make errors or carry something a bit too far as I feel NR did and not incur a penalty, but if it continues it should be penalized. Clearly, after moving to two wheels at or over the right edge of the track, he moved back toward the line, as he did not arrive at the next corner at the far right edge. He also hindered both drivers with his driving, as was his intention.
Alonso and Hamilton won't just forgive and forget, payback is just a question of when.
If he wants to "play" then;
Cut his rear tire with your front wing.
I don't see the big deal.
The article I read said that they didn't penalize Rosberg because both Hamilton and Alonso were not "significantly alongside" (or however it's phrased). And also, it was his "one move". And they didn't penalize Hamilton because he was not adjudged to have gained an advantage (he would have made the pass anyway since he had so much more momentum and going off track was more about avoiding a crash than gaining an advantage".
It was definitely hard racing, but not such that it required penalties, IMO. I am sure both Alonso and Hamilton will remember it for quite a long time
IMO, if they can't decide the issue clearly enough during the race to hand out the punishment, then any post-race punishments should be limited to monetary fines only. Changing results should never happen except under extremely extenuating circumstances (like illegal equipment, timing errors, etc).
Yeah, I read their explanation and found it lacking. Yes, it was one move, except that he moved back toward the line afterward (the MS tactical drift). That is when it begins to be hindering or blocking, not racing. "Significantly alongside" seems substantially irrelevant if the overtaking car is traveling at a higher speed and is required to take evasive action OFF TRACK to avoid collision (evasive action ON TRACK is different IMO). Heck, LH was traveling so much faster that he completed the pass while off track.
Perhaps there were stonger admonitions behind closed doors, but from the outside it appeared that they (the FIA) are weak and allowing ugly tactics to be permitted. By making a strong public statement about these incidents, they could have laid the ground work for all drivers should they continue. These incidents do not happen in isolation and drivers will continue to push against what is acceptable practice.
As you and others mention above, this will not be forgotten by LF or FA and retailiation will be an issue. Again, something that the FIA needs to be on top of. They are in charge of the playground and all of the kiddies playing on it and they need to act like it. I only hope they did so and we just don't know about it.