Bakelite versus Metal?

Yea, the owner decided he wanted a shiny metal one so he changed it.

 

The metal ones are aftermarket. One point to consider is that using a (thermally conductive) metal one can be a little unpleasant to a bare hand for a few minutes in cold climates or hot situations (so steering wheels and shift knobs are usually made with non-thermally conductive materials).

 

All 308's were delivered from factory with the plastic/bakelite shift knobs. If you see anything else it was changed after the fact.

It is important to remember that these cars are some 40+ years old and that is a LOT of time for parts to have been changed or modified by various owners. Everyone seems to throw the term 'original' around a lot when they do not have clear history records going back to day one.

 

After 40 some years do the bakelite switches still stand up to regular use?

 

Bakelite was the first artificial plastic first patented in 1907. It's usage had greatly diminished by the 1940s when it was displaced by other better plastics. Its probably pretty safe to say that there is no Bakelite in a 3x8.

 

In that. case I'll re ask if after 40 some years do the plastic switches still stand up to regular use?

 

Morning Mark,
Mine is a 1987 328, all plastic parts are holding pretty well until now(cross my fingers)...every time I open my mouth something happens

John.

 

My 89 328 is also pretty much like new.
My question was more directed to 308 owners and if they needed to replace their plastic toggles for metal due to breakage.

 

I bought one of the aftermarket solid metal gear knobs because it was obviously SOOOO much better quality than the plastic (or whatever) OEM Ferrari knob. A month later I sold the metal knob and put the OEM back on. On a summer day with the top off the metal knob was too hot to use! Another case of..."maybe the factory knew what they were doing"...

 

My '76 plastic shift knob and mouse ear switch ends are still fantastic...no cracks or wear. Other than the shift knob, I rarely ever touch the toggles, so not sure what would make them wear out.

 

I guess getting brittle over the years would be the only issue.

 

I guess to me it just seems like a non-issue. My 76 has 82K miles including many weird UK weather cycles. No issues.

 

The only interior pieces on my car that have deteriorated due to age are the covers to the seatbelt bolts, slider bezel plating and rear window heater button plating. No problems with the shift knob or mouse ears... the Lucas switches attached to those mouse ears are a different story though


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I always thought the diz caps were made from Bakelite on the 308, I could be mistaken but they sure seems like they were/are.

 

They are. Since thermoplastic stuff is not the right choice in a hot environment with internal sparks.
Call it phenolic resin, since 'Bakelite' is just a brand name. German 'Bakelit GmbH', who invented the stuff. Later Union Carbide in the US made it too, keeping the brand name 'Bakelite'.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

And you are certain that it wasn't made by t Leo Baekeland in Yonkers, New York, in 1907?? ;-)

 

Considering how our 308 distributor caps seem to be exactly the same at those used on 1953 4 cylinder Monza, it may well be that some are. I have NOS Magneti Marelli caps on my car, which gives me pause as to actually how old they may be!​

I still question whether this phenolic resin stuff is actually old fashioned Bakelite. (I am way beyond my depth in making any challenges; everything I learned about Bakelite I learned from Wikipedia). (I also learned the other name for Bakelite, which I love; it can also be referred to as "polyoxybenzylmethylenglycolanhydride".)

 

No. There's controversial information, when I compare Wikipeda articles about the company 'Bakelit GmbH' and articles about Leo Baekeland. If I look into my older books about injection moulding, there's even more confusion. So we could agree, that it was actually a belgian invention. If the birth location of Baekeland was actually Gent.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

FWIW...Leo was born in Belgium but had been living in the US for nearly 20 years when he invented/obtained a US patent for 'Bakelite'. So Bakelite was invented in the US though Leo wasn't.

Distributer caps are still made of 'Bakelite' (and other materials) though, as noted, the name "bakelite" was copyrighted so only the Bakelite company could call it "Bakelite." Same deal as "Freon." DuPont invented it and when other folks started producing it, they couldn't call it Freon because that was a copyrighted name so it became "R12."

Additional FWIW...the info above re Leo is from a 1978 Brittanica Encyclopedia from back in the days when encyclopedias were actually BOOKS(!) that had qualified people reviewing references/articles for accuracy. Contrast that with Wikipedia, et al, where anyone can publish anything with no fact checking at all and it becomes a "fact" even if it isn't.

 

That's what my elderly Chem professor taught "back in the day"

 

Yeah. I contributed a bit on the german Wikipedia regarding Ferrari 308 articles and learned a lot about the 'fact checkers'. At least enough, that I will waste no more time.

Best from Germany
Martin

 

I just presumed the 308 diz caps were made from Bakelite because they felt and looked exactly like the shells of Lionel train transformers from the 50s.

 

I follow Hill Engineering on instagram. Today they announced they are releasing a back resin / white or red numbed recreation shift knobs very soon. The pic looks pretty good.