oh well..why not.. 1 no frame rails ever made by bugatti were parallel.they were waisted at the front and very deep at the rear engine mount. 2 no bugatti engine sat on rubber mounts..they were bolted directly to the frame[ later 57's had complex cushioning devices on the rear arms.but these aren't them] 3 rear engine crossmembers[if any] were cast aluminum...not welded sheetmetal full of holes. 4 well..lhd 5 this "chassis" has independent front suspension..you can see the rear inboard pivots. 6 bugatti made his own steering shaft joint and that ain't one!!! 7 altho shortened by the photo, an 8 cyl bug engine is way longer than the space...a 4 cyl engine would have to be hacked considerably on the crankcase arms to fit. 8 the "bugatti" radiator on the front is a] the wrong shape; even ghia got it better..b] they added a fake sump complete with vent holes on the bottom..nice touch! 9 i promised a dozen but i'm so depressed..i'll just guess...it looks italian..thats a fiat steering joint for sure...i'll bet a fiat 1400 engine will fit those mounts as well.. i suspect that if someone had put a leaping cat on the hood of an austin the lady would have thought it was a jag. my considered opinion after 20+ years of working on bugattis...[ask me why i reacted so much to the steering joint!!!!]
guys, Olivier has a thing for old cars, barn finds, discovered cars and car's history i have to! and i bet many guys here are fascinated by this argument...not? nothing wrong with it he asked for infos, just relax and take a moment before shouting he is just looking for $$, selling or brokering it p.s. we both made a long trip just for a fellow jarama owner to have an original old rusty trunk lid since its car needed one....NO money earned on either part this kind of guy is a car guy imo!
Dave, you are funny but I wrote already it's standing 1.200 km or 750 miles away from Brussels !!! so I will not make the trip just to shoot pictures for you... NEXT time I will go (probably in November), I will pick up my Lambo and shoot new pictures for F-Chat guys... BTW, thank you to have teach us about the Bugatti faqs, I don't know a s... about Bugatti, and I can confort you that I have carefully inspected the Lambo as I already own quiet a bench of then, and currently still have 2.
Thanks for your kind words Emilio, it sounds like someone (you) will be able to moderate some people over here !
+++ what DBW said on the construction methods. Of course, post WW2, and after the passing of Ettore himself, who knows what might have gone on? There was a legitimate envelope bodied 2 seat sports car that IIRC looked a little like an A6GC Maserati with the full body...maybe a comparison of the frame details of that car with whatever this might be would shed some light? I somehow hope this is not real, but something somebody cooked up maybe because they had some kind of Bugatti engine on hand...?
On another Forum, someone suggests to analyse the frame and leads to FIAT... also, reaching one my thoughts...the frontgrille is maybe just a "monkey part" in order to confuse people...as I'm, we are... Again, all I want to discover is the truth, what is it ? and I don't know why some people made me "top offers US$" to buy it...of course they recognize it so they know themself !
Do you have a photo of the "Bugatti" engine[ sorry motor !] If this body started life on a Type 57 chassis it may well have been removed by someone with good taste and the chassis rebodied.The old body here may have then been fitted to some lesser car [hence the left hand drive]
[1]several Bugatti Touring cars have parallel frames,they are just closer together at the front until they arrive at the rear of the engine.[2]The T73 has rubber engine mounts [3] Type54 and T73c both have sheet steel rear engine mounts.[4] The type 73b and type 102 were to have been offered in lefthand drive as an option [ I am of course ignoring the vehicles produced by Ray Jones for americans.] [7] all of the postwar Bugatti fours would drop in nicely.I have also worked on Bugattis a bit.....The second pair of photos make it quite clear that this is not Bugatti.
well..you are partially right...pretty much all bug chassis from brescias to t57s were parallel but "waisted" to a narrower size at the front [most likely a leftover from bebe peugeots].i think all t 54s [minus the jones stuff] have been accounted for...and the rear motor mounts were steel plate, not sheet metal as shown in the mystery photos...i pretty much think all the t73 stuff has also been discovered and the idea of a "post war four" to drop in is a bit far fetched as only a few ever ran... if any four cylinder made it into a car it would be a brescia or a t40 variant...again not likely as the mystery car reeks of pasta and tomato sauce.
So take the $, broker the sale and then have the new owner tell you what it is. I mean if you don't have much personally invested in it other than a couple days gas/adventure/road trip, who cares if you only get $X when it's really worth $XXX. If it's actually something..... it's not actually anything unless it gets out of that barn. While people piss time away trying to figure out what it is, those who actually know what it is could get it, restore it and bring it back for the world to appreciate.... JMHO
I am rarely partially right.I own five wartime and postwar Bugatti's.T73003,T73c004,T251003R [replica]T252002R[replica]andT253002R[replica]The photo of the T252 in front of Bugattis chateau in Molsheim is of my car.I took it a few weeks ago during the 100 year festival.It will be on display at Autoworld in Brussells between the 18th of Dec and the 17th of Jan.Here are my cars. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Five Bugatti grand prix cars were designed during the war,and work started on assembly.All five still exist,here is T73c004 with my daughter and our T40 behind. Image Unavailable, Please Login
well..there's ten four cyl engines[ or do we subtract the thee?] out of the running...i suspect you know just where all the rest of the bits are as well...
There were a lot of Bugatti four cylinder motors designed and built during and after the war.In terms of models we have[1] T73 [2] T73a [3] T73b 1500cc or 1700cc blown or unblown [4]T102 blown or unblown [5] T252 MK1 [6] T252 MK2a [7] T252 MK2b 1500cc or 1600cc [8] T253.1500cc or1600cc.The best in my opinion is the Colombo designed T252 MK1 motor.This "little Ferrari" has hairpin valvesprings with roller followers,and twin ignition.The test engines would run all day at 10.000 RPM on the testbed.It was half of the 8 cylinder GP motor which on one occasion "ran away" on the testbed up to over 11.000 RPM without damage.The T73 motor with some modifications is doing well now too.218 BHP from 1500cc supercharged with 16 lbs boost,[on methanol] Several of the above engines were destroyed on test.We do not know exactly how many were made.None of them were fitted to the rusty car shown on this site !! I recently bought the original Bugatti wooden patterns which came up for sale after the death of Fritz Schlumph's widow Arlette.I bought 4.5 tons of patterns [44 cubic metres] I can now build 9 different Bugatti 4 cylinder motors.So if anyone wants one for the living room in their house.....
Your wish is my command,Here are a couple of the block patterns for the T251.This is the first engine that I am building as my car is sitting waiting with a big hole in the middle where the engine goes.Here also is the first new Bugatti block made in original patterns for 50 years. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
here are a few more of the truckload as they were unloaded. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
and again ! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Very Cool! I think you will need to become subscribed because a thread devoted to these wooden wonders is requested. You clearly have a treasure there.
I am not sure that that would be appropriate ! these are Bugatti matters.Perhaps YOU should all subscribe to the Bugatti site !!I am pleased that you are interested.Original patterns are quite quite amazing.I never imagined that they still existed.It is a bit irritating as I had already made new patterns for the entire T73/73c motor.And also made new engines.Now to find that I own the original patterns.Imagine finding all the patterns for the very first Ferrari V12 Colombo motor.[and gearbox/axles/steering box/brakes etc etc etc] If anyone has a particular favorite part and wants to see the patterns just ask.
WOW!!! How in the world did you find such things?? Were they still in the old Bugatti factory hidden someplace? This is facinating to me. Do you have any pictures of the Bugatti factory in its glory days??
