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Barn find.... today

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by davehelms, May 29, 2012.

  1. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    That was fun, wasn't it? One heck of a lot of work to prep for these gatherings, more so when done back to back on two weekends like these with the Hagerty event the weekend before!

    As John said, "come Spring time...the shop is always ready for a full on clean up, these gatherings were just a good excuse to do it".

    We wore 'LawnDart' ragged, he wont be the same for weeks... poofty little fella.
     
  2. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    RE post 180,

    My Son Bill was instrumental in setting up our powder coat division, he was the one who saw the need to get away from painting where a vastly more chip resistant surface coating was needed. Aside from the wear resistance benefits, the local Fire Dept yearly inspections have now turned into a social event once the cabinets full of paint were eliminated and jars full of various non volatile powders replaced them. With the shop move to a different city 7 miles away, I seldom get to see Fireman J but the new local team is all cut from the same mold as he was.

    Where Bill broke new ground for us, Travis has turned it into an art form, this is where the time is spent when doing it the way we want it! Surfaces are taped right up to the parting line to exclude any surface finish build up that will affect end float, bearing pre load measurements and add a risk of fasteners loosening up as a surface finish breaks down on a machined surface. Tedious as hell, one needs to get into the right mindset to razor cut in the mylar tape right on the correct parting points.

    Prep is one thing... I have yet to figure out how he over comes the laws of physics and gets powder in tight corners where a Faraday Cage effect comes into play and pushes the powder away from the charged part. Travis would have us thinking it has to do with his Harry Potter magic wand he keeps at his bench... but I don't know about that stuff and have not seen the movie
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  3. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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  4. cgifool

    cgifool Rookie

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    Just out of curiosity, would there be any benefit to powdercoating the interiors of engine blocks instead of using the glyptal paint?
     
  5. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    Powder coating requires the surface to be blasted clean. You don't blast the insides of a motor. While some paint would tend to slowly dissolve over time in that environment, coating would chip off, and that not a good thing. Regardless, it is something that is just not feasible or safe.

    john
     
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  6. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    #856 davehelms, Apr 5, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019
    I agree with John, powder coating the inside would be very difficult with little advantage over the Glyptal paint But... the painting process must be done right for it to be effective and last and that in itself is no quick or easy feat!

    Far more so than media blasting of any type, prep for painting Must include several cycles of the casting in the oven. It requires heat to draw out old oil caught in the pores of the casting and just when you think it is clean, the next heat cycle shows that is not the case when little puddles of oil appear on what was thought to be clean. Usually 3-4 heat cycles, flowed by high pressure air and solvent in the affected areas, that while still hot.

    The first two coats of Glyptal must be thinned down to near water like consistency to allow it to seep into the casting pores, then a final sealing coat can be applied to that after the paint correctly kicks

    The biggest challenge we face in our powder coating is with the vintage engine cam covers and the newer model cast intakes, and that because of the heat required to set the powder coat.... just when you think it is clean, it inst. I developed two colors of silver wrinkle powder coat for the intake castings, one for the F40's and one with a hint of green for the 456's and 550's. I had not expected oil issues on the intake castings but sure enough the oil breather systems and / or leaking turbo seals put enough oil in there to be an issue.

    Vapor blasting has now changed the whole media blasting process and along with that, the limitations we once knew. Particle embedment was an issue for Rolls Royce in the maintenance of turbine motors, and the water slurry blasting process is a result of that problem. What once couldn't be done, is now possible... but not without its own set of problems to over come.
     
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  7. JCR

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    Glyptal is old school and was originally used to seal pre-war motorcycle cases. Current practice in industry to reduce casting scrappage is to use something like Loctite Resinol porosity sealant. The sealant can be the vacuum impregnation type or brushed on like paint.
     
  8. cgifool

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    Thanks so much for the insightful responses!

    I'm not a Ferrari owner or mechanic (vintage BMWs are my thing) but I've grown to really appreciate how much great knowledge there is to be gained from lurking here - such as making sure not to paint or powdercoat mating surfaces - issues that are common to maintaining any vehicle, especially old ones.
     
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  9. The Kook Abides

    The Kook Abides F1 Rookie

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    Great to see you back in action on this car Dave. Looks great. I really appreciated your help and expertise when I restored my 308GT4
     
  10. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    There are an infinite number of ways to do "it" correctly, some with better results than others. The best I can hope to do is point out what direction I am heading with this old lump, and my reasoning for doing it. Coming up on 50 years of doing this daily, one would think I would have already made every mistake possible, alas... that is no where near the case. Each method I do is an adaptation of what didn't work before or what I have had to fix in the course of my days work.

    One of the joys of being old, ones ego has already been deflated to the point of a vacuum, that where interesting debates can take place and much learning can once again happen. I have a group of geriatric gray hair techs throughout the world that I debate techniques and everyday technical problems with daily. One opinion can be a wealth of knowledge but it pales to several hundred years of hands dirty, combined experience when discussed in a group of Pro's, each dealing with and sharing hard earned knowledge.

    Sadly, the Net can be an incredibly powerful learning tool and at the same time, a terribly combative and confusing place, as such I no longer engage in the practice of beating my head against the wall, that once justified because it feels so good when I stop. I truly enjoy light hearted debates and value every opinion where everyone, that damn sure includes myself, learns just a little bit more in a pleasant atmosphere. If this happen to be that place... what the heck, lets have fun doing this!

    This AM I re read my post from yesterday and I feel I should clear up something. My reply was not intended to contradict John's statement, but simply to add to it experiences I have had... apologies John, if that came across wrong. No different than JCR pointing out new technology, even though I am comfortable with old, only because I know what works for me... its all good stuff and we each learn something new. Shlt... I have been near Boulder CO too long, its wearing off on me
     
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  11. davehelms

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    Wrestling with Alligators this week, the rear springs are now ready for media blasting. Thankfully the spring arcs are all still matching and none will require recurving, only new bushings and a facelift.

    Powder coating all done on the ancillary pieces of the rear axle now. Travis tells me he found the 'perfect' shade of silver powder coat for the cast iron center section, from the several hundred options that we have sample cards on.

    Not a single one of the options had a useful description of the color and shade, something like "20% gloss, semi flat, fine grain aluminum" would have helped a lot. Instead, when a potentially good option is picked out, the description amounts to "Bombastic Silver", "WannaBe Chrome", and the likes.... where do they come up with that crap?!

    I just held my tongue this time as the last time I got lippy with Bill about a powder coat 'color', the next day my 24 mm wrench turned up powder coated a bright Pink, no chance of loosing that one now!
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  12. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    Its good to be back and working on old Joe's Pride and Joy!

    Life got in the way for a time... but we are learning to live again.

    Happy to help where I can, glad it worked out
     
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  13. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I mentioned Joe in passing, just the other day...….good memories.
     
  14. turbo-joe

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    picture please ;)
     
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  15. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    Truly some very fond memories, ones that I have allowed my mind to over shadow some of the greatest frustrations I have ever experienced. Its comforting to dwell on what I choose to view as the successes but I often find myself wondering if I did things as good as I could for Joe.

    Given the option to plan a course, I suppose one could do as far more admirable job but that was never the case in our shared time together, instead everything demanded to be done on a reactionary basis. It would have helped a great deal had I known Joe rather than 'getting to know him' as our journeys progressed all the way to Kris and myself becoming his legal guardians. There were very few 'smoldering' issues where time could be spent planning a proper reaction, to the contrary, everything seemed to always be full on Chernobyl situation.

    Akin to juggling the same alligators Travis was wrestling, it demanded thinking fast and reacting immediately to hot irons being thrown from every direction. In Joe's final days I sat on his bedside and apologized for where I felt I had failed to do my very best for him. I guess its just human nature to have regrets when things settle down enough to allow time to analyze. I find myself comforted with the knowledge that Joe was never alone, hungry or cold in his final years... and for Joe, that checked off all the boxes on the "its a pretty darn good day" list.

    Following Joe's passing, more than once I looked at Kris and said "Never again, One and Done!"... but that would suggest I have a modicum of control of my own destiny. Nope, as was brilliantly suggested might be the case years back in this story, Joe was the Teacher who was just prepping me for the next round of challenges that would be thrown my way. NEVER say "never" when you don't have the heart or fortitude to look the other way. Joe had one car... Mrs. C had 14 cars plus a dozen motorcycles and multiples of most everything else ever manufactured, and had recently lost her husband!
     
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  16. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    That will have to wait until tomorrow, Kris's 2019 Spring Edition Honey DO! novel was just printed and it contains some unintended consequences to prior gifts given.

    Always searching for the perfect gift to give my wife for special occasions, a great deal of thought goes into finding something that will prove very useful, I was certain I hit it out of the park a few Christmas's ago, some have suggested otherwise but Keegan was quoted saying "That is one lucky Girl!".

    Now 39 years after my Mother advised me never to give my wife appliance's as gifts, I thought maybe an exception could be made when I first laid eyes on the 1947 Oliver ground driven manure spreader needing some TLC and restoration. No longer would Kris have to push the wheel barrow around the corral and spread manure with a pitch fork.

    Yah....... No Longer, in deed!
     
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  17. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    Just one of those all but hidden and ignored assemblies where the incredible design and detail is rarely seen, studied and marveled at. This was back when Enzo himself called the shots, over design was SOP.

    Bushing design pedal box pivots be damned, not just two ball bearings, but three. There is good reason why the "feel" of these cars was legendary, "consumer acceptable" was a term that had not yet been invented or considered!


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  18. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    When Snap On started a hard push back on warranty of wrenches that had been beaten on or had turned blue from use on red hot fasteners, a second set of Craftsman wrenches was set aside in the "Weld a socket, Bend a wrench" selection, for exactly this task. Retail store clerks don't give a damn how you broke them, one such wrench was warrantied when returned cut in half... "it failed after falling on a cutting torch"... "yup, sure enough it did"

    Funny how this wrench has never gone missing since Bill powder coated it pink! Same applies to all my trailer hitch tongues that get swapped between the truck, Jeep and Lexus... and "borrowed" by all.... not a single one has been lost after Travis powder coated them all lime green
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  19. davehelms

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    #869 davehelms, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
    The original intent was to powder coat the splined hubs and the brake and clutch pedals in the same batch but after some debate, Travis and I decided to change it up and try a different method on the rotors and hubs this time.

    With a quart of ultra high temp ceramic firearms coating on hand that we also use for exhaust header refinishing, the decision was made to refinish the hubs and rotors with that, prior to having the brake rotor surfaces reground to true after remounting on the hubs.

    Ole LawnDart is getting good at taping off surfaces in a timely fashion. There was a fair amount of debate when we took away the pre school safety scissors and handed him a razor blade for trimming. Lets just say a mop and bucket is stationed next to LawnDart's work bench in the event Travis calls for a "clean up in isle 3"


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  20. Lowell

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    About 10 years ago, a friend bought 50 broken 1/4 and 3/8 drive Craftsman ratchet wrenches from an eBay auction for about $30. He loves playing with old tools. He interchanged parts and got about 15 or 20 to work. He gave me 6 of the ones that were broken beyond repair and told me to take them to Sears and get them replaced with new ones of the highest quality. I did this over a period of several months so as to not attract to much attention in the single Sears store that we had in Santa Fe, NM. I got them all replaced with the best versions at no cost, with me keeping 3 and giving him to other 3 shiny new ones according to our agreement. He exchanged the remaining wrenches at the Santa Fe store and at the two Sears stores that were then in Albuquerque. So he got 47 very nice ratchets for about $30.
     
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  21. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie
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    Cant beat that, Lowell! Now we will see how Lowes handles the brand after Ace didn't market it very hard. I am happy to see the brand name lives on in this day and time. I still have most of the sets I bought as a young kid working on my GoKart I was building in my folks garage. The tool box in my garage at home is full of them, the tool box bolted on the hood of the tractor, same. Any tool that can stand up to "middle of the field repairs" on a tractor and implements, that is a truest test!

    A few months back Kris's prized Christmas gift broke the conveyor chain in the middle of the pasture. Normally the final death blow to vintage manure spreaders when the chain breaks, they are usually just hauled to the corner of a field which is considered their final resting place. Unloading with a pitchfork is an ugly task, check that box, its one that I now know well.

    Roll bar tubing slipped over Craftsman wrenches to gain the leverage to break free 75 year old fasteners, field repairs were made on the spot... with one minor modification that has now become legendary in our valley. The design engineers saw the need for the flinger shafts to have a lot of torque, and put the small gears on the drive and the large gears on the flinger shaft.... good for a crop field but in a pasture one wants it broken up finer. Race Car design "what if" thinking led to the gears being swapped... and a legend was born.

    Neighbors down the road now dash to bring in the laundry hanging on the cloths lines and close all house windows when they see the ranch rat LandCruiser getting hooked to the spreader and heading toward the south pasture! The real humor in it was FChatter Richard on a weekend visit... he vastly underestimated the velocity and distance now possible from these modifications, his Son heeded my warnings, he did not.
     
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  22. turbo-joe

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