Barn find.... today | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Barn find.... today

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by davehelms, May 29, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Four7EightBHP

    Four7EightBHP Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2005
    288
    USA - Colorado
    Congratulations Dave. The old gentleman gets to be involved in a life long interest. Good for him!
     
  2. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    That's a good Body Man....I had one much the same, he'd say:

    "Sometimes you need to get to bare metal, BUT this isn't one of those times!"

    ...and he'd go gently into the original Ferrari lead work and filler and fix only what needed fixing.....sadly retired now, down on the coast chasing fish around Matagorda Bay...

    Good to hear the prognosis!!!
    Carry on... I'm in the river at Gruene Mansion, pretty good internet connection!!

    Rodney Crowell next door tonight...."Life Gets Messy"...my theme song.
     
  3. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Oh no, he insistes on finding bare metal. Sadly the worst rust areas on these cars is where the early attempts at undercoating was done. It proved Highly effective at holding water against the metal, not away from it.

    He is quite pleased the doors, and everything forward of the rear of the doors, is in wonderful shape with all of the body seams being extremely nice. Rear wheel wells, inner and outer rockers, floor pans... we have some metal work to do, we just need it all bare steel to identify just how far we need to go. Where the undercoating is the heaviest... the rust is the worst. The advantage at this point is the S2 GT in his shop has exactly the opposite areas in need of replacement, thus allowing a good view of the original construction techniques of each area.... what overlaps what. In the case of our car, I need only wheel out the box break and roller to form very easy pieces that amount to supporting sub structure only. The exception to that would be the outer rocker panels, which I would want to remove to ease the proper install of new inner rocker panels.

    Alas, all of these questions will remain unanswered until we assemble the car for the reunion, and then once again go backwards, taking it all back apart for a proper restore.
     
  4. SonomaRik

    SonomaRik F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2006
    6,880
    Sonoma, CA
    uh oh....someone is getting more involved than let on....slippery slope :D ...women and children to the tall grass and oldsters to the stockade
     
  5. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Nope, not really. While it sits in my shop, after buying it and investing weeks into locating and inventorying the parts... its "ours". Once I have reached my quest to get Joe back in the drivers seat, enjoying the car, if only for a short time..... Obviously, making a personal commitment to get Joe back driving the car precludes me from selling it... or restoring for that matter, at this point. Given there is so little time to accomplish this, I have pulled the blinders in tight so I can focus at the task at hand. Who owns it for the long term, that can be decided later but at this point Jenni says it wont be cut up..... so be it.

    I am frustrated by the fact I want to have this car standing proud and looking great when Joe see's it again for the first time since we pulled it from his 'cave'. I have a 5 gallon can of lacquer thinner I am using to remove the gray primer spots he painted on, and have 1/2 gallon of heavy machine compound to try to polish the bare spots and bring back something of a shine to the original paint. Its proving to be a daunting task, one that regardless of the effort we put into it, will never look as good as I would like it to when making the surprise Reunion Presentation.

    My current hope is if it runs crisply, drives straight and is all back in one piece again...... maybe that will gloss over where it will fall short in paint condition. Its been apart for decades now, gathering many layers of dust in that time, all while any hopes of ever seeing it in one piece have long ago faded. Maybe seeing in whole again will bring back a smile, maybe its simply wishful thinking on our part. Jenni and I have decided its worth the gamble in time and effort to find out.

    Life once again gets in the way and is taking away what little time we have remaining to get this done. We spent the weekend getting trailers hooked up and ready, the home shop organized and cleaned, topping off the water cisterns, registering to help with evacuation and keeping of livestock, getting all of our own personal belongings in order, as the local fire is completely un contained and all too short a distance north of our house for my comfort. We keep a watch on the map of the fire lines and the drone of the fleet of Slurry Bombers overhead are a constant reminder we had best have all our affairs in order on short notice. Having livestock that requires trailering means that everything else must be ready early. To complicate this further, the Shoemakers kid syndrome comes into effect, as nothing I have runs or drives!

    We have many customers far closer to harms way than ourselves, those are the ones we are most concerned about now. Based on the fire line maps, there are past and present FChat/Ferrari folks who's homes are well inside of the current evacuation lines. I have not even tied to contact Jay the Fireman since the weekend as I am certain his hands are full and he is likely being rotated in and out of harms way. This is a bad one, it's in the tall timber in some very rugged terrain with only a few potential fire breaks. The car, for the time being, will have to wait....... Again.
     
  6. BLAMPEE

    BLAMPEE Man Card Status: Never Issued

    Holy ****, Dave....

    I hope your home and family and livestock all remain out of the fire's path. :(
     
  7. chas-3

    chas-3 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 28, 2009
    1,270
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Chuck
    Dave, if you need my assistance in hauling any trailers out of there just let me know. Me and the Durango are at the ready.
     
  8. Face76

    Face76 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 21, 2006
    11,600
    The Other Oz
    Full Name:
    M Wilborn
    Not to get OT but I have noticed in the TV coverage of the wildfires that many rural homes have pine or other trees very near their home in the mountains. While these may add to the peacefulness of the surroundings, why don't homeowners cut a farther fire line around their home? Would this be any help? We watched coverage last night of a family that was watering the lawn and trees around their home, many of the trees being less than 20 feet from the home itself. Based on my limited knowledge of pine trees and fire, 20 feet isn't far enough.

    Good luck and stay safe.
     
  9. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Thanks Chas, I think we will be fine. I just have so much immobile stuff that I start early so I wont have that regret hanging over me in the event the worst happens.

    Mountain living surely has its risks and many of those along the front range have lost everything over the last few years. Its been a Century since fires have thinned these hills and the stage was set some time ago. It is for this reason I chose the property I did, in a valley with defendable space. With all of the standing dead timber in the hills now, it is nothing short of explosive given the drought we are in here. IF the fire fighters can hold the northern and southern lines at the highways, the east is covered by the reservoir, and the loss of person property will be minimized. The sad part is even if a house is saved, the property values, over looking charred barren hills for the next generation or two, plummet. I got word yesterday that Roland's old house was saved but all of the property surrounding it was lost. Such a beautiful setting, in this arid area at this altitude after a fire this hot sterilizes the ground... we are talking generations, not years for re growth.... very sad indeed.

    On a happier note, I got an email from Jay that both him and Joe will be stopping by the shop today. That news got all hands on deck last evening after the work day was done. Jenni, Kris, Dad and myself took to washing the car down with any and all solvents that we had in the cabinets. Side louvers were set on, windows washed, headlight trim, turn signal and side marker lights, front bumper and grill were all set in place. Jen stood back, squinted and started smiling.... for the first time she could picture what this could become.... and she liked it.

    Rich, my upholstery guy stopped by yesterday, and I made him aware that Jen would be spearheading the project and he had to answer to her. He said nothing, walked over and grabbed a stool and brought it to the car. Rich sat down, turned his back on me and looked at Jenni and asked... "what are we doing to THIS?" "Well... we... errr... I want you to save this interior and restore it back to..." "You want what?!!!! Should I shoot myself now and save the pain and agony?". Thinking I should give Jenni a little direction to follow in her attempt to sway Rich's opinion, it was evident he was going to hold class and teach Jenni what this restoration process was all about. I opened up with "How about we...", and got cut short by Rich, never even turning around to look at me. "Jenni, did you hear something?" "Yup, sounded like blah, blah, blah... kinda like the Charlie Brown parents". "Dont your 'people' have something better to be doing right now?". Having been put in my place, lower in the food chain, the conversation turned to the condition of the original leather in the front seats. "As you can see Jen, the leather in these seats has turned into something resembling that wrinkled up old cuss you call your father. We can repair the stitching, treat the leather, re dye it where needed but...... No matter what we will do, it would be like hanging ear rings on a Pig". It was at that point they both turned and stared at Me, Jenni once again squinting to get the mental picture,.... a long pause.... and then she said, "no Rich, that wouldn't be nice at all, some things you just cant dress up I guess".

    Oh what have I done now? Here I thought I had a game plan in place where I could pin Rich to the wall and that clever crud played dirty having anticipated my move, turning my own game, and daughter, on myself. Rich picked up the Panzer seats we had sitting on the bench waiting for him, turned to me smiling with a big shltfaced grin...... "Gotcha!" The battle was lost, the white flag raised... but I never give up that easy.... and he knows it. What started as a discussion about old leather and 'who' it resembled.... this will become a battle of the whit's as I still have the living room carpet floor mats to spring on him.... I'm not done yet!
     
  10. RVL Saratoga

    RVL Saratoga Formula 3

    Aug 27, 2010
    2,421
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Full Name:
    Robert
    If you're going to play chess, be careful how you advance the Queen. ;)
     
    pupdum and bergxu like this.
  11. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    #136 davehelms, Jun 13, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sure enough. No pretty way of saying I got my ass handed to me in that cage match!

    The tools to be employed to get the engine running without the aid of flammable spray cans. Don't anyone mention to Gurney that you know where his Trans Am Cuda fuel cell went when it got pinched! April 1970, 22 gallon Trans Am fuel cell made by Goodyear for Dan Gurney's All American Racers Inc. Good thing it is safe for 15% Nitro Methane and Methanol.... we will need that with this project!

    Having a fuel cell in the trunk will allow me to divert attention away from pulling the exhaust, fuel tank, lines, pump.... and the restoration of each, at least for the short term.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. RVL Saratoga

    RVL Saratoga Formula 3

    Aug 27, 2010
    2,421
    Saratoga Springs, NY
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Hey, I need one of those to cope with the rabbit piss gasohol I'm forced to buy at New York pumps!
     
  13. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    The new fuel cells I buy now disolve within 4 years, unloading what ever is in them on the shop floor overnight. Some 42 years old and this fool thing still holds fuel. The F50 owners could only Wish for such a replacement!

    I asked my hose engineer if we could make bomb proof rubber bladders out of the liner material of our hose. "Sure we can... do you REALLY want to? Have you spoken with your insurance carrier about this lame idea of yours?" Pass... thanks for listening, have a nice day.
     
  14. BLAMPEE

    BLAMPEE Man Card Status: Never Issued

    With all the fun games and shenanigans that goes on over there at SR....:rolleyes:....it's amazing that any work ever gets done!!! :p

    You should do a reality TV program (even though I hate reality tv...:p) cuz all of you are so ******* funny!!!!

    Good times....good people. :)
     
  15. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Passed on that 3 times already. Kris told a reality show producer seated next to her on a flight back from Mpls, "Those Motorcycle guys... they wouldnt last a day here, we would teach them words (remember, I talk to Keegan daily... where do you think I learned them?) they had never even heard before". She thought that would end the conversation.... Yah... that is when he woke up and paid attention.

    My specialty machinist is the one that builds the custom billet 1911's for the American Guns show, based down the road in the next town. I have enough insight into that FUBAR scene to make me run away screeming like a school girl! He works late at night so the camera's arent around and he can get work done!
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    He is correct in the long term about "old hides"......
    But you have a railroad to run, and a schedule to keep....and I still vote for "patina" on anything except the seating surfaces.

    How about color correct duct tape?
    That's what I use!

    Pebble Beach, well that's where the big bucks are spent.

    jsa330 lost a 4 headlight car, to a wreck in Dallas....surprised he hasn't weighed in on this thread.....

    Roland was a very happy man, the day the ranch sale finally went thru......
     
  17. IanB

    IanB F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 15, 2006
    15,624
    Sydney
    Aerotech in LA make viton fuel bladders that should last forever, very reasonably priced.

    btw the trick to making fuel cells last is to keep them full of fuel when a car is not being used. Cell in my Indy car is 30 years old and still perfect.
     
  18. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Patina is good... if the budget allows the extra effort and cost.

    Sorry to hear about jsa's loss... that hurts

    Were you ever at Rolands place? Stunning setting and house, he was quite fortunate.

    Beats the heck out of FuelSafe's offerings of the last 8 years! Kept full, they always seemed to pick the winter months to empty the load on the floor... when the heaters were running... puckered me up big time when I would open the door in the AM. I completely agree, the old cells were exceptional. Trying to remember where the heck I got this cell... I think it came out of my BBC CanAm car. What ever it came out of... I intend to keep using it in one of the projects.. if they ever get finished.
     
  19. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    I had a very nice conversation with Bob Norwood last week about an unrelated matter. He had a number of the quad cars, I wonder if jsa's was among those. I was under the impression most, but not all of those had long ago been taken apart, while at least one is under restoration.

    As anticipated, J and Joe stopped by the shop after lunch time yesterday, much to the delight of all of us. The effort we had all put into the car the night before, to hang a few bits, rub it down with every solvent on hand, wash the interior and windows AGAP on short notice..... it brought big smiles from Joe to see the progress and changes. What wasn't expected is that Dad and I had spent a couple hours in the morning installing the fuel cell in the trunk, plumbing in a new Facet fuel pump with jumper wires, digging through my assortment of cloth wrapped fuel line fittings and finding a barbed banjo fitting to plumb this cluged set up into the inlet of the original fuel filter.

    The Facet pump was powered up, the lines to the front pressurized and........... nothing, no fuel to the front rail. It took a while, but the new fuel dissolved the varnish in the twin regulators and finally.... a trickle of fuel from the line exiting the front regulator. The line was quickly reattached to the rail and I started pumping the throttle linkage in hopes to see accelerator pump action........ what was I thinking? Again we waited in hopes the fresh fuel would work magic, and dissolve the varnish in the carbs from 26 years of it sitting in the cave.... alas, it wasn't to be. Given time it might have worked but the day job was calling my name and this project wasn't on the days schedule. Break out the electric screwdriver, pull the lines from the rail ends and pull off all three carb tops together. Upside down on the workbench it was quickly found the float pivots were completely frozen at the pins. Taping those out with a pin punch and removing the floats.... the next culprit to be identified was the needle valves were frozen solid in the seats from decades of varnish as well.

    It is at this point where one steps back and asks themselves..... why.... you know better than to rush this type of thing. Why? Because I wanted Joe to hear it run again, I want to raise the bar each time he see's his pride and joy.... onward. Out comes the brake cleaner (no, not your consumer grade brake cleaner... I broke out the good stuff that makes you glow in the dark and splits the skin on your finger tips within a minute of contact). Wrestle out the needle valves and polish them up AGAP on the fabric of my work pants leg (one of the best first stage polishing cloths that can be found in the shop). On a quest, blinders pulled in tight and focusing on the task.... no, I forgot to blow off the brake clean prior to rubbing these on my thigh, a mistake I will pay for in the coming weeks!

    Throw it all back together with one screw in each carb top, attach the fuel lines to the rail, gather up every 5 and 10 pound Halon Fire Bottle in the shop, attach the Rube Goldberg influenced jumper wire/pump/lines arrangement... and power it up. The throttle linkage was pumped madly in hopes of seeing it at least wheeze out a whisker of Anything liquid and flammable. All of a sudden the front carb pumps started working as designed, first pumping out years of dust, then followed by some version of a liquid... consisting of what I do not know... but it was liquid none the less. Thinking we were on a roll at this point, there was a cheer by both Dad and myself... until the needle valve was found to be stuck open on the next carb in line, the center one. Ever defiant, it wasn't going to go easy, and with too much time already taken away from my work day... a swift smack to the carb top with the plastic handle of a screwdriver laying near... the new motto that will stick with this car throughout the process.... Any port in the storm, what ever it takes... and the needle valve shut off and the dripping stopped. A few more minutes of performing the same ritual on the rear most carb and for the first time in a long time...there was some form of liquid 'something' coming out of all 6 accel pump nozzles.
     
  20. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
  21. Bad Dogg

    Bad Dogg Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2006
    433
    Avon, CT
    Full Name:
    Howard
    Fantastic! Looks like the fire is not headed down your way also.. Glad all is well

    H
     
  22. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    #147 BigTex, Jun 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    8,887
    Central NJ
    #148 ArtS, Jun 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Scotts (jsa330's) 330 (5409) was a saga - my first and only visit to Texas was to bid on the car. It ran great but the nose clip was bent (frame was straight)and pushed over into the driver's door. After talking to scott about it, I bid on it at the insurance auction with the help of Rolly A. (a member here). Some local that had no clue what he was doing bid it beyond my limit (and much beyond Tom S's if I recall). The car floated around and deteriorated further. I almost bought it again from the winner of the first auction but didn't come to terms. It was actioned again and ended up in a Porsche scrapyard in CA with an asking price in the 70s.

    It is actually listed as sold. http://www.porfor.com/

    I'm sad that I let it get away.

    Regards,

    Art S.

    Here is a picture of it sitting in the CA scrapyard a year and a half after I tried to buy it:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. simon klein

    simon klein Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 25, 2009
    28,802
    North Qld
    Full Name:
    simon klein
    A great pity Scotts' insurance(I guess he was)did'nt let him keep the wreck.
     
  25. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    We are well out of harms way now. It did jump the highway to the north lastnight. Many more evacuations were ordered and that takes the fire on a tragic path where it will be extremely difficult to contain the damage to personal property of many. This will be out of control for Months now that it is in the High Country and big timber. Snow is what will lay this one down, its that big. I plan on leaving all the cars loaded and the trailers hooked up, this place is a tinder box waiting for a spark.
     

Share This Page