Barrett-Jackson ejects Keith Martin/For all you Barrett-Jackson fans...

Why, all of a sudden, is Keith Martin being made some kind of hero? Nearly 20 years ago, he created an Alfa Romeo newsletter, with the help of other enthusisasts and experts in the field.

He eventually realized that the way to make money in the classic car area was not to provide historical information and actual results of auctions, along with technical help, but to become one of the "wheeler-dealers"in the field, and therefore, part of the show.

It was later his personal decision to eventually become part of the B-J circus, and in essence, become not much more than a pimp for them. Now he is on the outs, as he as decided to become "legitimate". He created his own problems, and IMO, is no way admirable. The only one he can blame for the ultimate results of his actions is himself.

It may seem to some that I am jealous of Mr.Martin, but in fact, all I have for him is a degree of sadness for the route which he chose to take.

 

Is he a hero? Perhaps there is just some pent up demand for BJ being exposed for some of their practices. He was kicked out for trash talking BJ...well, there's some trash to talk.

Someone's just finally saying it in public.

 

People have been saying it for years. It's just that most haven't been listening because they are part of the circus and don't want to see it go away. A lot of people have made big money off this other than B-J themselves.

 

Can you point me to the old threads here on Fchat where they've said such things?

All that I've seen on-line has been laments over the muscle car bubble being too high, not allegations of phantom bidding and early-auction-ends for friends.

 

Maybe not on Ferrari chat specifically, but the "troubles" with B-J and some other auctions have been known for quite some time.

My point is basically that no individual is either a hero or a villian. A lot of people are involved on both sides of the equasion.

 

My point is that it hasn't been known, hasn't been said.

Not on TV. Not in magazines. Not on Fchat.

That the first guy to finally say something about it in **public** is being denegrated hardly surprises me.

This is brand new.

 

Very well said.

Mr. No Doubt, because you proclaim Mr. Martin as a hero, don't you think that you need to ask him why he was a major pimp for B-J until this year?

Furthermore, shill bidding and dealing from the bottom of the deck have been part of the auction scene since forever. The regular players don't talk about it much because they use it to their advantage. B-J ain't the only guilty one.

Dale

 

I respectfully disagree, and guess I will have to leave it at that.

 

I don't proclaim Mr. Martin as a hero. I asked if he was one. In fact, I offered that any praise sent his way was probably due to pent up demand to someone finally saying something in public about BJ's shenanigans.

That's what is new...that something is finally being said about BJ in public other than "muscle car prices are a bubble."

 

How can you disagree? You can't show where anyone has ever before said anything in public about BJ's shenanigans.

That's my point. That someone is *finally* saying something about BJ's apparent shill bidding on the one hand and quick auction closes for friends (short puts) on the other.

 

As Dr.Who has said, this has been going on forever. Although you may not have ben aware of it, certainly many others have been.

 

Thanks Dale. At least one person got my drift...

 

And yet, all of these people who "knew" about it wouldn't talk about it on Fchat.

Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

Talking about it, certainly talking about it in public, is new.

 

I don't remember where I have read comments about shill bidding in general and don't really care enough to find the cites.

But you appear to be missing the point that Mr. Martin has been fully supportive of the B-J auctions since, at least, 2002. Even if you are correct that no one has published any reports of dirty dealings at B-J until now, what do you suppose is motivating Mr. Martin to blow the whistle at this point? Are you thinking that Mr. Martin just now noticed this stuff. Or is it possible that it has been going on at B-J and other name auctions for years and Mr. Martin choose to ignore it because, well, by doing so helped pay the rent?

Dale

 

I'd swear I read an article about chandelier bidding, in the last year ... in Sportscar Market. Anyone else recall such an article?

 

I can't speak for Mr. Martin, but I can tell you that whatever BJ was doing appeared small to me...until the Futureliner fiasco last year.

Now it's hard to ignore. Now we're seeing the first reports come out in public.

 

The May, 2006 issue. Page 30. One paragraph and it doesn't name BJ.

 

I've been going to car auctions for 30+ years, and every one has had obvious shills....maybe not to the degree as it is today, but it has always been there. Anyone who isn't aware of this fact shouldn't be going to auctions of any kind; not just with cars...

 

As a collector car journalist, someone who has been watching this all for a number of years, and listening to the "insiders" grumble and pass rumors, this is all very expected.

It's all very interesting, and I am working on a post to my Four Wheel Drift blog about this very topic about B-J. I'll probably have it up tomorrow, but here are some of the quick points of what I know and can pass along.

-B-J has really screwed themselves this year. Their contracts specifically promise every car three minutes on the stand. Due to ego and greed, they expanded the auction to the point they could not provide this, plus they had the audacity to do it on live television. There is a class-action lawsuit forming at this moment specifically on this basis.

-Like evangelical healing shows, they had assistants milling around asking what specific sellers thought the cars would bring. If a lot passed the value at which a seller indicated he'd be happy, the car would be rushed off and the gavel would fall.

-Many of the cars auctioned were owned by Craig Jackson and B-J. Many that sold were actually purchased by what would be called "shill bidders." Many of these cars returned via transporter to warehouses owned by B-J. I have been hearing rumors of this nature for many, many years, and this year people have tracked the specific cars in question. This likely will wind-up a part of a class action suit, which if proven, could possibly land Craig Jackson in jail.

- While I've never met him, the buzz among those in the hobby -- both collectors and journalists, is that Craig Jackson is quite arrogant, so don't expect many to come to his rescue.

-As for Keith Martin, I applaud him for turning the corner on his view of B-J, but I'm with others on F-Chat...I hate to say this about a colleague, but I felt his behavior was a bit unprofessional. As journalists, it is our responsibility to write what we think, but going to the show for years, then promoting RM and Russo+Steele while at Westworld is somewhat unprofessional. I agree that Keith has become too much of the "circus" and that SCM has too a significant degree helped to fuel misinformation and a house of cards regarding specific auction prices and bidding behavior. He is a good guy -- an enthusiast, who maybe just needs to take a step back and a big breath and reacquaint himself with those outside of the very insulated collector car "in crowd" -- and spend time with some car people who are not trying to exploit the collectors. There are plenty of guys who have dug themselves too deep into this little crowd, and are no longer fun to deal with, because they've put personal greed well ahead of the cars and the collectors. Keith will rebound -- he has a great internal staff of really fantastic people, who hopefully will help him return to his roots.

In closing, I'll give you my closing line from my Four Wheel Drift post:
"This all being said, B-J "jumped the shark" this year. Unlike when Fonzi did it, Craig Jackson drove his shill-bid Hemicudas over the tank and down a ramp that likely leads to six years in a minimum security prison-issued orange jumpsuit."

 

If people have said it and nobody listened its because they were not of any consequence. When you have someone who carries some weight say something against the circus then people will listen. Since Martin is somewhat of a celebrity or at least noteworthy, then people will take note. And when you get kicked outof anywhere it makes for a great story.

Regular people saying this sort of thing go unnoticed.

As for him being a hero? I wouldn't go that far. But he may be the one responsible for more people listening and paying more attention. It could be the spark that starts the fine along with the Ramcharger allegations and other incidents

Look at what it has caused just in this thread alone. I'll give the man credit for that.

Ed

 

Interesting - please post a url to your blog when it's online. should be some interesting responses.

If you're correct - we'll soon hear the sounds of a big POP and massive amounts of hops scented hot air rushing out of large white tents.

 

I wish the collector car market would crash and burn to a crisp like a supernova. Take all the investment incentive out of it completely. Then car guys could buy what they want and have fun. Every time some Camaro, Hemi Dodge, Corvette or Mustang sells at auction for big money, the local yocal in every town thinks that HIS rotting hulk must be worth 30 or 40 thousand dollars for sure. No matter what realistic offer you make to the jerk, it's never enough. I've lost track of the number of pre-68 Corvettes that I know about that were owned by "pie in the sky" dreamers who will let it rot before they will accept an offer that is ONLY 4 or 5 times what they paid for it.

 

Having the collector car market crash would be even more difficult than impeaching George Bush. Ain't going to happen. Too many pimps and whores in town.

 

I wonder what is going through the minds of Speed Channel as more and more allegations come out?

 

Great post. I sincerely hope that Mr. Martin reads it someday.

Dale