News

Barry Bonds

Discussion in 'Sports' started by rollsorferrari?, May 10, 2007.

?

Should Barry Bonds get Hank Aaron's home run record?

  1. Yes, without a doubt, he hit more home runs then Aaron and that's it.

  2. Yes, but he should have an asterisk by his name.

  3. No, but not because he doesn't deserve it, but because he won't get it.

  4. No, he doesn't deserve it, and shouldn't be allowed in the record books.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. rollsorferrari?

    rollsorferrari? F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2006
    9,847
    St. Louis
    Full Name:
    Scott
    this is not a question of will he pass hank aaron, but simply one of should he pass aaron. he's only 10 home runs away from tying him, and predictions have him getting it in mid-june, unless pitchers start throwing inside and pitching around, which will probably happen with a few at-bats. personally, i've seen first hand what has happened since the whole balco fight and the congressional hearing, mainly having centered on the whole mark mcgwire debacle. i don't think he deserves arguably the most famous record in baseball. there's too much publicity surrounding it, for one i think he was on steroids, and it's only going to get worse as he gets closer to 755. what do you guys think?
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
    Full Name:
    Jack
    That's why I brought this up a few weeks ago. If I were a pitcher, I'd walk him every time. The only time I wouldn't would be if the score was tied, bottom of the ninth and bases were loaded. Then I'd plunk him.

    I agree--it's a disgrace to think of him owning that record. Think back to what Hank Aaron had to endure while chasing down Babe Ruth. He was truly exposed to the most hateful forms of racism, death threats, and other dispicable behavior. And he stood up and faced it bravely like the real man that he is. Barry is a pouty millionaire diva who is the epitome of modern-era spoiled sports brattery.
     
  4. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    30,629
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    Easy. The game has changed. There should be two record catagories now; one for dopers and one for non-dopers.

    Bonds should hold the record in whichever catagory he qualifies for.

    What is wrong with that?
     
  5. 8 SNAKE

    8 SNAKE F1 Veteran

    Jan 5, 2006
    6,666
    Springfield, MO
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Bonds (and others) hurts baseball. He'll get the record (unless he's kicked out of baseball...unlikely) but people won't care as much about the records anymore because they're being broken by people who cheat. Some will legitimately break records, but all records will be guilty by association. It's a shame, but that's the direction I see baseball going.
     
  6. rollsorferrari?

    rollsorferrari? F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2006
    9,847
    St. Louis
    Full Name:
    Scott
    i couldn't agree more with you. people like aaron and robinson all had to endure harsher criticism then today's over paid over zealous players. if an mlb team were to want me to play, i'd be more then happy to play for the league minimum, considering that's a few hundred grand a year to play a game for a living. aaron has even stated that he won't go to the game when bonds breaks the record, and i don't think i would either given the circumstances. i do think that bud selig should go to the game, because he has an obligation to be there, given that he's baseball's point man on day to day affairs.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. justhrowit

    justhrowit Formula 3

    Feb 12, 2004
    1,020
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Jay D.
    Why have records for dopers when drug use is ILLEGAL in the sport to begin with? Why put them and their record up on a throne to see when they broke rules to get there in the first place? Having a secondary "record board" only helps people see it as o.k. If baseball has a dopers record board, why the hell not legalize performance enhancing drugs all together?
     
  9. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
    12,949
    I say it should be in the record books until anyone can prove he's done anything wrong.
     
  10. justhrowit

    justhrowit Formula 3

    Feb 12, 2004
    1,020
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Jay D.
    This would still be difficult to do! How do you take away his home runs. How do you decide how many home runs he hit directly because he was sauced up? Do you go back and change the scores of all the games in which he contributed to as well? More so, change the team records to which if he hadn't hit a home run or an RBI it would have changed the outcome? Do I condone his use, no! Do I believe he has taken drugs... you betcha! However, how do you punish past performance based on a positive test? It's virtually impossible. Unfortunately, this is todays game(s) and something that has to be dealt with. I think it's safe to say baseball is doing a REALLY ****ty job doing so. Players unions aren't helping either. I guess this is another reason why unions suck, but that's another topic all together.

    J
     
  11. ZINGARA 250GTL

    ZINGARA 250GTL F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jun 21, 2002
    17,340
    PA
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Perhaps, Hank Aaron said all by simply ignoring the record breaking event. Gentlemen sometimes do that.


     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. heckler40

    heckler40 Karting

    Apr 18, 2006
    152
    IL
    Full Name:
    Tony
    I'm not sure if you follow baseball...but he's already testified.

    So, he should be banned from baseball period. Done.

    I mean, we don't let Pete Rose around do we?
     
  14. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,960
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    If they are allowing him to play, yesterday, today, and tomorrow, under the currently standing rules of Major League Baseball, then the record is his, end of story. You can't have it both ways.

    Obviously, they should change the rules. There should be a list of banned substances, or types of substances. "OK guys, this is the rule. If you want to play the sport, follow these rules. You will be tested for compliance with this rule on a regular basis. If you break the rule, there is no suspension period, no second chance, no appeal. You're out. If you don't like it, tough. Go form your own league."
     
  15. 8 SNAKE

    8 SNAKE F1 Veteran

    Jan 5, 2006
    6,666
    Springfield, MO
    Full Name:
    Mike
    I hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're exactly right. Hank has shown a great deal of class by refusing to be pulled into the media circus surrounding this whole ordeal.
     
  16. ZINGARA 250GTL

    ZINGARA 250GTL F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jun 21, 2002
    17,340
    PA
    Full Name:
    Ken
    Thanks. HA has respect because he earned it. It belongs to him. It comes along with the two things no person can ever take from him; his education and his integrity.


     
  17. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    30,629
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    I was being sarcastic
     
  18. justhrowit

    justhrowit Formula 3

    Feb 12, 2004
    1,020
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Jay D.
    I should have figured, but you just never know on forums! Sarcasm never shows itself quite as intended through a keyboard, does it?

    J
     
  19. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

    Mar 9, 2004
    1,244
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Bob Lebenson
    I voted for the first choice, “Yes, without a doubt … “. Here is why (in no particular order):

    1. Bonds has never been conclusively proven to have taken steroids. The closest thing to proof is some alleged (and illegally) leaked testimony from the Grand Jury.

    2. People point to Bonds’ physical growth from early in his career. But I can tell you that I added weight in proportionately the same amount from my early 20’s to late 30’s, and I wasn’t on steroids. (Even my hat size increased.)

    3. Bonds has often been called a cheater. Since MLB had no steroids policy until very recently, how can it be said (even if he did take steroids) that he cheated. Cheating is breaking the rules; you can’t break a rule that isn’t there.

    4. As somewhat of an aside, there is an analogous situation in baseball dating back 80+ years. In the early 1920’s, use of the spit ball was banned. However, not only were records of previous spitball pitchers allowed to stand, but also a “grandfathered” group of pitchers who relied on the pitch were allowed to continue using it for the remainder of their careers. (One of them, Burleigh Grimes, kept using it until the early ‘30’s, and is in the Baseball Hall of Fame.)

    5. Steroids are illegal, and heavily tested for, in baseball now, yet Bonds continues to hit this season (home runs and otherwise) as well as he did during his so-called “steroids years”. How can that be, if the only reason for his prior performance was drug use?

    6. The primary benefit of steroid use for athletes is that they lessen workout recovery time, and thus allow players to become stronger. They do not improve reflexes, eyesight, or any of the other factors that are more important to batting than pure strength.

    7. Finally, since MLB adopted its steroids testing policy, more than half the players who have been caught by testing have been pitchers. Isn’t it reasonable to assume that the same would have been the case had testing begun ten years earlier? And if so, why is all the focus for steroids use on hitters (such as Bonds), rather than pitchers (such as Clemens) who showed equally remarkable performance improvements late in their careers?
     
  20. heckler40

    heckler40 Karting

    Apr 18, 2006
    152
    IL
    Full Name:
    Tony
    1. He testified. End of game.

    2. That is possible. Don't think this is in question or related.

    3. Steroids are illegal according to law. MLB doesn't define, pass or otherwise mandate federal or local law.

    4. Again, unrelated.

    5. Are his HRs/bat going up, down or sideways "now"?

    6. Not true.

    7. Again, unrelated to Bonds.
     
  21. MGD416

    MGD416 Formula 3

    Jun 4, 2006
    2,330
    Boston
    Full Name:
    Matt
    no I think his points are valid, its a different game, different times, lots of pressure to get that advantage... it will be impossible to know whether or not he would have done the same thing years ago but the bottem line is he is getting close to doing it now and its not like he faked the home runs, he hit them in MLB games and should count.
     
  22. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

    Mar 9, 2004
    1,244
    Las Vegas, NV
    Full Name:
    Bob Lebenson
    I must commend you on the brevity of your responses, even though I obviously disagree with them. Let me answer in kind.

    1. “He testified. End of game.” Does that mean that everyone who testifies is automatically guilty?

    2. It is related because Bonds’ increase in size is commonly offered as proof he was juiced.

    3. As a matter of fact, steroids prescribed by a doctor are not illegal.

    4. I said it was an aside.

    5. Bonds is hitting HR’s this season at the second fastest pace of his career (for a season), and more frequently than the average pace during his “steroids years”.

    6. If not true, what IS true?

    7. Again, it is related (to Bonds and to other batters). If juiced batters are facing juiced pitchers, does one have an unfair edge?
     
  23. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    22,054
    banana republic of america
    Full Name:
    Israel Beiteinu
    I saw Bonds play college baseball (around 1984/85) between Arizona and Arizona State. Barry Bonds was a tall thin college player. - Look at him when he played for Pittsburgh.


    There are too many juiced players today, that are artificially putting up record breaking #'s. Bonds is not the only player. McGuire, Bagwell, Canseco, and Giambi etc..., were all much smaller as college players.


    Aaron and Maris are both the champs in my estimation. The other records are not genuine.
     
  24. ItaliaF1

    ItaliaF1 F1 Rookie

    Aug 28, 2005
    4,948
    Nashville,TN
    Full Name:
    John Burrow
    Although the whole steroid issue really bothered me, he did hit all those homers. When he breaks the record, I will be happy for him. Steroids or not, that is a big feat.
     
  25. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
    7,731
    CA
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    Come on now. If you're not cheating, you're not trying!
     
  26. Whisky

    Whisky F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2006
    18,004
    Upper Great Plains aka Nebraska
    Full Name:
    The original Fernando
    I don't have a problem with BB the baseball player, but I think he is one of the worst possible 'ambassadors for the sport' of anyone in any sport. He's just a ****.

    That said, you still have to see the ball, and contact the ball, steroids won't help with that.
     
  27. robert biscan

    robert biscan F1 Rookie

    I saw the guy in Fl. in spring training a year or more ago and he was really big. It's true you must see the ball to hit it and you must hit it right to hit a homer and it is also true the guy is way big.
    In a way the world has changed but Maris was eating eggs with spinach to get his boost. That is not illegal. I guess it's the lure of easy money that gets them.
     
  28. heckler40

    heckler40 Karting

    Apr 18, 2006
    152
    IL
    Full Name:
    Tony
    1. Well...if you admit it under oath...yeah.

    2. Fair enough...I think there are a lot more items that point to him being guilty. As a side note, you could easily parallel Bonds and Sosa.

    3. Sure...that's not related to this. It was given to him by his trainer, who was convicted of dealing steroids.

    4. Point taken.

    5. I didn't really have the time to look up all the math but that's great. I think it would be interesting to do the math throughout his career and then overlay that onto the steroid usage.

    6. Strength isn't the only reason to take steroids. Quickness and stamina are the other 2 that come to mind.

    7. I don't think this is related to Bonds. We are discussing Bonds and him being guilty and him being recognized as the future holder of a very important stat.
     

Share This Page