Beardy Branson wants to change the rules!

Of course it still is. But the flag is purely advisory. I know when I was in a slower class and if I was being lapped (by a car in a faster class, of course ), if I was racing someone else ... IN CLASS ... I'll be damned if I'm honoring a blue flag. In fact I try to use the fast car as a block. Of course, OTOH a car fast enough to actually lap you in a sprint race is much much faster and can easily get around without any help.

Anywho, of course that's only for multi-class racing. For F1, IRL and the like, there is only one class so when you are being lapped you better damn well pull over. Blue flag or not.

 

What you are talking about here is the quality of the flag marshalls. They should not be waving the flag if the faster car is not up to the other car.

Pete

 

If it's mandatory in Australia, then the Australians are more evolved racers than we are here! Nothing infuriates me more than being stuck behind some slow poke who refuses to give me room to pass and forces me to risk my car for no reason. I always worry about passing them because they've showed me they are too stubborn to know when they are beaten. I always get them under braking which puts me off-line into the turn and I'm always just waiting for that thud on my door as they ignorantly try to hold the position.

I had a guy hold me up for about 5 whole laps on a track day - he was getting blue flags the whole time and only when I was going nuts on the radio did they finally show him the black flag for ignoring instructions (you're not supposed to pass on this track day except on the actual race sessions and drivers shown a blue flag are supposed to wave you through). It was all I could do not to beat his ass when we got back to the pits. The guy would walk around to the people he was holding up and say "heh, couldn't get by me, eh? Yeah, I am real good at holding people off". No you choad, you are real lucky others respect the rules and don't just punt you off!

It's maddening

 

Note I used to flag marshal in New Zealand.

I only watch now, but when my Alfa is restored that will change
Pete

 

For the record I have never met a slow driver.
I have encountered countless cars with improper gear, suspension, or aero set ups, motors down on power (even out of the crate, imagine ! ) wrong tires, brakes, and a myriad of other sometimes unexplainable ills.

 

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ain't THAT the truth!


A million Schumachers, if ONLY their car was working right

 

*I* am a slow driver in desperate need of instruction and track time.

I still have fun.

 

LOL!!

good time to bring http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8 up again

 

Hey I know that guy!

 

I suppose that if they re,oved the rear view mirror, that would stop most of the blocking by backmarkers.

I am not sure, but I think it's Ken Tyrrell who used to advise young drivers not to look in their mirrors: a) they don't get intimidated by other drivers catching them up, b) he thought that anyone able to overtake should do it without help from a slower driver, but also without being impeded either.

 

A different time I fear. With today's cars and track configurations passing is no where near as easy.

 

Again you and Vizsla have missed the point.

The issue being discussed is not about a race pass, ie. position number 10 catches position number 9 and wants to pass, it is about lapping, ie. position number 1 catches up to position number 15.

A completely different situation and EVERYTHING clearly indicates if you are that fncken slow that the leading car has caught you up then you are NOT in the race at all, thus get out of the way and let the race continue for those that actually count.

Branson is a fncken idiot who knows absolutely nothing about motorsport, has never followed it and I'm pretty damn sure never competed in it. Thus he knows absolutely nothing and thus any comment regarding motorsport than comes out of his @rse should be ignored. He is a hinderance and I am counting the days to when he gets bored and simply fncks off and leaves the sport for people that actually understand what it going on.

In conclusion, I say again if by some miracle (ie. the team ban him from talking to them for a couple of years) and Virgin actually design a half decent car (instead of the tight @rse piece of **** they have been forced to create that is an embarrassment to all forms of motorsport) and suddenly find themselves consistently in the top ten of the grid and race, the idiot Branson will be saying the complete opposite, ie. why are these useless slow cars at the back of the race getting in our way and ruining our race.

Yes the guy can make money, but motor racing is about SPENDING money, please go away Branson!
Pete

 

I'm not sure how you managed it but you seem to have turned my position on its head. As much as it pains me to say it ( ) I agree, and have agreed all along with what you've stated.

 

Apologies then .

I've just noticed that the "lapping" part of the passing comments keep getting dropped which makes an enormous difference to the conversation. I thus concede I have wrongly included you for this ... my bad.

Best
Pete

 

May may now rejoin the class,

 

Other than the misunderstanding with Dave, I am not sure you have ever made a better post!

You are so right on the money.

I remember reading a story about Branson once where people expectantly asked what awesome cars he owned and he said that he had a Saab and a Land Rover and didn't see the point of expensive cars when their only purpose was to go from A to B.

He got involved in F1 because he is looking to make money off the deal. He saw what happend at Brawn and wanted to carve out a piece of that for himself. But I don't think he is achieving it. EVERYTHING he says and does is based in a desire to turn a profit on his F1 operation, and has NOTHING to do with sport or sportsmanship or competition. F1 will be better off when he sells out. It shouldn't be long now. He's waiting for another year or two at most, hoping someone wants back into F1 and will buy him out.

 

at a profit, no doubt

 

I don't think that it was Brawn that he wanted to emulate but Red Bull.
Someone pointed out recently that RB is not so much a race team as it is a marketing effort. I thing Sir Dick saw F1 as a way to get his brand some good exposure as well as a way to have some fun.

 

Can't you write posts without swearing all the time? Not cool at all ...

Anyway, even backmarkers that are caught up by the leaders are still in the race and fight among themselves.

If backmarkers were that irrelevant, I am sure motorsport would have invented a system to eliminate from the race.

It also seems obvious to me that if some racers can lap other competitors, they must have an obvious technical or talent advantage, and that slower vehicles and less skilled drivers shouldn't be a problem for them. Don't you think ?

It mostly boils down to the problem that overtaking in F1 is hardly possible without the cooperation of whoever is passed. It maybe that the tracks are too narrow, the cars' aerodynamics create unwelcome turbulences, or the circuits layouts is not flowing enough (too many chicanes), etc...

 

All true save the part about eliminating backmarkers. If the FIA could do it without losing money it would be possible

 

Branson is actually exactly what F1 needs: someone who invests and spends money in it .

Compared to you, he may not have your expertise, but I am sure that he can be allowed to express an opinion, like anyone. After all, he put his money where his mouth is; do you ?

I suppose that the present team is just a toe in the water at the moment, to see if F1 is really helpfull to promote the Virgin brand. F1 receives worldwide coverage, and is, potentially, an excellent billboard to enhance Virgin image.

Branson is really like a fish out of the water in F1: Virgin previous promotional efforts have been in ballooning, aviation record breaking, boat racing, and well-publicised stunts, mostly unchallenged.

If he judges the exposure he gets justifies his investment, Branson will probably increase it. If not, he will quit. I wouldn't be surprised if he buys another more successful team and ditches Manor, or walks off out of GP altogether...

Branson is not used to chicanery, so I am not sure that F1 is the ideal environment for Virgin.

 

IMO Bit*hing about about blue flags isn't going to endear him to the fans and can't be good for the brand image.
Other than that I have to agree with you. Branson could be a big plus for F1, just not the way he's going about it now.

 

Its Just my opinion...

oh... and I have done several races over the year... I even have the photos of me in my "Ferrari" as a momento..

It always thought 80% of the overtaking was done whilst breaking or in a slip stream.........



ain once Virgin become competitive they will want lapped cars to get out of their way.

This thread is simply stupid and should be closed. Anybody that thinks we can do away with the blue flag has no concept of motor racing and how vitally important it is to ensure we actually have RACING.
Pete[/QUOTE]

 

"I know Dietrich Mateschitz, and Richard Branson is no Dietrich Mateschitz"



If Branson has ever said he wants to emulate Mateschitz, he is living in a dream world. Dietrich has been a gearhead to his core from the beginning. This is the Red Bull museum in Austria

http://www.thebullrunf1.com/2010/01/hangar-7-red-bull-museum.html

Dietrich owns/sponsors tons of motorsports, from the plane racing, to NASCAR, WRC and owns two F1 teams.

As for RB being not so much a team as marketing, I think that's BS. Marketing is about sales which is about profit and, more importantly, ROI. Red Bull absolutely has a net deficit from their racing efforts, not a net profit. Red Bull Racing is a billionaire living out his dreams, and we all get to watch.


Branson is a different animal. I know folks who've been involved in businesses with the man - he's all about leveraging his name and position to get $$$ flowing to him with as little risk as possible. He's not someone that wants to invest significant portions of his own money, nor is he someone who particularly cares about cars or motorsport. There was an opportunity at Brawn to get in for a low price. I thought he was lucky - others said it was prophetic genuis. Well, I guess it was luck after all because he's certainly not done well this year. The setup of VirginF1 is structurally and financially complex, so it's difficult to tell how much real $$ Branson has in it. But his votes in FIA matters and his comments to the public show that he has only one thing in mind - whatever benefits him the most, financially. And he doesn't see the path forward as being to win and make the car fast, but rather to be happy to be at the back with minimal investment and just sell out whenever the opportunity comes along.

He got in cheap, he's running things on the cheap, and is waiting to sell out to Porsche or Honda or Toyota or someone when they want to get back in.

No way is Branson gonna follow Dietrics path... he doesn't have the heart for it.

 

They do - they don't get any points or money.

Ideally true but in practice, not true. Some tracks you just can't pass on - like Monaco.

It seems to me that showing blue flags to slow cars which have already been lapped is an infinitely simpler solution to changing the tracks and changing the cars. Realistic solutions are worthwhile. Things that may work in an ideal world but won't work in the real world aren't going to solve anything.