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Beater/seat time second car

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by FCMD, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. FCMD

    FCMD Karting

    Mar 21, 2019
    58
    El Campo, Texas
    Full Name:
    Frank
    #1 FCMD, Aug 17, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
    Ok. I'm researching this and want to hear from a non biased board:

    Joined MSR last month, my son and I got our SCCA comp licenses yesterday. It makes zero sense for me to go down 1-2 times a week to get better in my GT3 RS (with ceramics) or my F12. Have an 812 on order.

    If seat time with a manual is the goal, what would you choose? I've heard sound arguments from the 3 biggies- spec miata, spec racer ford and spec boxster as well as building a track 996 from a local Porsche tech who tracks.

    Spec Ford:
    Drove a SRF for my license, a lot of fun, did not miss the horsepower at all. The most cost effective consumables from a consumable standpoint. Turn key service at MSR, shop at MSR. But is it too different to the F12/RS?.

    Spec Miata:
    Cheapest to buy in. Easy on the wallet (2nd to SRF), parts and help readily available at MSR. Slowest of the 3. Yes I know the point of the exercise is momentum and learning.

    Spec Boxster:
    The most expensive buy in and highest consumables. Not a high horsepower track car but probably the closest to the F12 (and upcoming 812) and GT3RS.

    Build my own 996:
    One of the techs at Momentum Porsche (my dealership) tracks suggested this for more HP and similar driving experience and driving lines to the F12/RS. He'll be installing the cage/seat/exhasut on my RS and is a good resource. He did a Miata for a year and didn't touch his RS but said if I wanted a car closer to the RS the rear engine 911 would be the fastest. And with no nannys the most challenging. Once mastered would I be better overall than with the other 3?

    There is no right or wrong answer. What I am looking for is the age old question but with a twist: what would be your "track" daily driver. Do I just suck it up, be disciplined and stick to a momentum car or should I get a car with similar lines/brake points to the high HP cars?

    I just want to hear everyone's opinions here rather than on a Porsche/Miata/SRF forum.

    I am new to all this so maybe I’m asking the right/wrong questions, so please add whatever comments you feel necessary as I have no ego and my assumptions are truly based upon ignorance.
     
  2. FCMD

    FCMD Karting

    Mar 21, 2019
    58
    El Campo, Texas
    Full Name:
    Frank
    I forgot to mention (won't allow a second edit???) I work evenings/nights 1 on 1 off so I can track every day if I wanted.
     
  3. schao

    schao Karting

    Mar 31, 2013
    158
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    S Chao
    Before offering an opinion, may I ask why you and your son wanted an SCCA comp license? Do you intend to go racing or just wanted the training and experience? BTW, I have been club racing with SCCA for ten years, started by tracking a Ferrari (328 GTS), then a Porsche (944 Turbo), and then a Stohr sports racer.
     
  4. FCMD

    FCMD Karting

    Mar 21, 2019
    58
    El Campo, Texas
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Both. My son did/does not golf or hunt so this is the one thing we can do together.
     
  5. Manda racing

    Manda racing Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 25, 2015
    826
    Bakersfield, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I’m here at Rolex Reunion and watched all types, Formula Ford if you fit looks like a whole lotta fun. (Sports racers too) So many manufacturers too.

    At some point you either time trial or go wheel to wheel. All experience transfers over to what you have anyway.

    I don’t know anyone racing door to door in the cars you have. I hope your son sticks with it with you. It sure gets lonely without family taking an interest.

    If you two can do arrive and drive for wheel to wheel and enjoy time trials with your street cars when arrive and drive isn't available ; that’s serious seat time.

    With the classy cars you (which aren’t racecars) already have I wouldn’t want a beater race car sitting around too.



    FWIW
     
  6. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    16,066
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    imho, i think you go with a spec miata with the plan that it is an intro car

    no way build anything on your own
     
  7. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    16,066
    Atlanta
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    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    and then i'd looked at a track prepped or race cayman
     
  8. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Apr 12, 2017
    1,707
    Atlanta, GA
    Full Name:
    Steve D.
    What about Karts? 80/100cc is a pretty big thrill.

    (I re-read...you've already got your road racing licenses)

    sjd
     
  9. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Aug 10, 2002
    16,723
    socal
    Had 348 streetcar converted to racecar later rolled it
    Race SCCA all over country in T1/2 in C5z06. Best car but now an old chassis stuff breaks as things age. You can’t preemptive replace every part. Easier to buy a new chassis and convert to get a few years of pain free racing. Once you race anything all other streetcars on track just bore me. My 6th street Ferrari just sits in garage. I would look at your Scca region and see what class has good numbers and race one of those. If the T classes are a possibility I would buy two mustang eco boosts and convert to racecar and you and your son can race each other. Eco boost fits in T2 and T3. The v8 must GT fits in T1 or T2. Mustang is a big cabin unlike Camero or vette.
     
  10. Manda racing

    Manda racing Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 25, 2015
    826
    Bakersfield, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark
    I would run / rent a again FF to finish getting your licenses. Usually you only get provisional license.
     
  11. schao

    schao Karting

    Mar 31, 2013
    158
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    S Chao
    If you want to just have fun pounding around a track with your son close by, then choose similar cars that are fast, reliable, and easily serviced and maintained. ==> Spec Boxster or track-prepped 996 (GT3?).

    If you want to become a better driver, then you will need to improve your braking and cornering skills. You will need to be willing to periodically lock up the brakes and occasionally spin and go offtrack as you explore the limits of the car and/or what driver inputs lead to those outcomes and what you should do different next time. So a car that is durable and easily/cheaply repaired will become more important. ==> SRF or Spec Miata.

    If you want both (speed and a car that allows you to become a better driver), I would suggest a race car that is lighter than any of the above and costs probably equal to or less that a spec Boxster or 996. ==> Either open wheel formula cars (Ford/Mazda/Continental/Enterprise) or closed wheel sports racers, (Sport 2000, Radical, Enterprise Sports Racer, Stohr, Elan, Norma).

    A SRF3 is what I would buy if starting new today (the original SR Renault and SRF were too crude and slow in comparison). They are reliable, durable, easily maintained, reasonably fast, you can go racing as well as do track days. Plus, they hold their values and can be sold quickly and easily should you want to switch to something else.

    I'd also suggest you consider the availability/cost of consumables (tires, brake pads, engine/tranny service cost/interval, fuel and fluids) as well as cost and ease of repairs. Use coaches, and consider having radios so you can communicate with your son while you're both on track, and/or coach if at trackside. Above all, DO NOT COMPROMISE DRIVER SAFETY!

    Good luck, you'll have fun whatever you decide to get.
     
    trumpet77 and innerloop like this.
  12. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2006
    5,434
    Central FL
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I’m looking at turning my old DD MX5 into a track car. It’s not my DD any more, but I still use it as an ‘airport car’ I.e. it’s the car I drive to and park at the airport each week. But once I replace it, I plan to strip it out, weld in a roll cage, fuel cell, exhaust etc.

    I have a couple of options in mind for who to have do the work, where to store it, trackside support etc, but I’m thinking that’s the best plan for me right now. Cheap track time in a car that’s comfortable for me sounds great. I’m not going to progress up the racing ladder any time soon. I’m about 40 years too late to think about that. But I do love banging around a track at speed as often as I can.
     
  13. Ky1e

    Ky1e Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2011
    1,178
    FL
    #13 Ky1e, Aug 25, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
    spec miata if you want to go in for the least, cayman if you are worried there wont be enough power or if you are going to do a lot of racing.

    BGB Motorsports in Daytona, FL (John Tecce) https://www.teambgb.com/ is a great place to start-- they can give you advice, find good used race cars for sale, build, or do racer support for caymans (or any Porsches). John Tecce is the owner--good guy. They built my Cayman race cars and did my race support when I started in AM racing and got me into Pro racing. I would definitely recommend giving him a call, this is what he does (coaches people getting into racing on what cars, where, how, who, how to get started) and specializes in Porsches. Or he can refer you to someone near you. It's a no-brainer.

    Tell him Alan VOLT Racing sent you, or PM me and I'd be happy to chat with you and give you what I have learned after starting where you are to eventually Pro racing, to owning a race team and competing in 2 Pro Series (IMSA and PWC/SRO) full time, racing 22 weeks a year.
     
    GuyIncognito likes this.
  14. schao

    schao Karting

    Mar 31, 2013
    158
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    S Chao
    Have you considered buying vs building? I'm not involved with the SM class, but I have to believe there are plenty of existing cars which could meet your needs, and it may be cheaper for you to buy a current SM (and sell your Miata) rather than spending to convert your Miata.

     
  15. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 11, 2006
    5,434
    Central FL
    Full Name:
    Paul
    I’m open to any and all options, and I have looked at buying an MX5 cup car. If it looks cheaper than converting my current car, sure I can do that. In either case, I’d be looking at someone like John Dean and his Sick Sideways shop in Sebring to cover storage, prep and track support, since that’s the track I go to most often, and he knows these cars like nobody else.

    Good thing is I don’t have to make any decisions right now.
     
  16. schao

    schao Karting

    Mar 31, 2013
    158
    Palm Beach, FL
    Full Name:
    S Chao
    I've met John and agree he and his team would be an excellent option to prep your car and support you. If you can get around Sebring at speed with confidence, you can drive anywhere! Good luck and have fun.
     

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