Random thoughts.... Remember when netzero was free? Who wouldn't pay $10 to post their IMHO's! If capital is needed, why not make it an organization and give everyone a share of stock for the entry fee? I could do the legal work....for a fee!
Depends on the amount of the subscription. I agree it will put off those who have to pay for the privilege of posting very useful tips and info on the technical threads. Other free forums like Ferrari Owners will benefit.
I miss the old FerrariChat. I can't help but feel that this change was a death blow to a great forum. It just doesn't feel the same. I think what made the old forum so great was because it was FREE. It grew and grew and grew. Rob please don't kill the site. I think that the site can survive the change in design, but if you make it a pay site is is gonna die.
I like this idea A LOT. I wonder what the cost (to Rob, that is) would be to set this up, though. It would require some legal work as well as some beauracracy. Do you have to own land in Del. to incorporate there? It would seem you would need to own "something".
No offense intended but many of you fail to realize that this site consists of a few great techs. Many of you speak of saving thousands on your bills due to their help but then you want to charge them to help out on a site. I guess if you like shooting yourself in the foot go for it. You are just asking to kill this site. It seems to be the same individuals that reply to most of the tech ?'s. Why would they pay for giving free info? I have been on this site since the beginning and what makes this site great is the willingness to help other owners regardless of incentives. It is a shame that we lost some of our founding members that helped build this site. This has been discussed many times before and this site charges they will lose many valueable members as well as techs. Why would you pay to be on site that only discusses about which marque is better or what wax to use. Make it optional. Those who feel they want to contribute can make donations and those who don't, don't. Leave it at that.
I don't buy the argument about tech people offering help an then having to pay for the privilege. This sounds like JRV propaganda!! I understand on the surface why some think this. Reality is these people like ALL on this board enjoy this forum an are here for that reason first an foremost. I like to think that people that assist others here do so out of a genuine appreciation of all things Ferrari or otherwise an to help out a fellow F-chatter. That being said i like some of the more creative ideas here regarding sponsership of F-chat.
You can incorporate in this way from anywhere in the country. I did it a few years ago, and it only cost about $300.
I offer advice when I can in the tech section, I can't see paying anything even $10 for the priviledge to do so, this site can make money off advertising similar to other media, its not HBO and Rob has no product to sell just the goodwill and kindness of the experts willing to share their knowledge, the ones that would pay would have a commercial promotional slant to their posts which would be biased and wear thin.
I feel that anybody that baulks at a small membership fee is slapping Rob in the face. Whoever said this forum should be free and that Rob should work his a$$ off for it? Though the sponsors help, I doubt Rob can quit his day job on that income! This is a great forum with high value. I have been on line on the west coast at 11:00PM on an occasion or two and have received replies to emails from Rob on quations I have had. Does anyone think he has a paid staff that works 8 to 5? I believe the forum will be of higher quality with a membership fee. I'm also with Art, lets weed out the flakes.
Is TV and radio free? No, its paid for by advertisers, noone is saying Rob should not be compensated for his board but charging a membership is not the way to go
I'll gladly pay for FChat and I don't even own an FCar yet. For the folks that are unhappy with the new look and feel, please give it a chance. It isn't even 48 hours old! vBulletin seems to be the standard that most message boards use and it does have some cool features.
Why would it be a slap in the face to Rob? Let's not forget that he has 12 paying sponsors at this time and let's say a minimum of $300 a month (Note: I have no idea what the sponsors on this site pay, could be more or less)...that's $3,600 there, for over $43K a year. Believe it or not, that is a great deal of money...isn't that like the average income in the US? (If you don't, please feel free to send me $3,600 a month and I'll talk to you all you want.) I wouldn't object to a small fee, if it's like $10 a year then that's not a big deal; however, I really don't see that many loyal customers paying more than that. Let's take a look at this thread. So far about 20% of the replies are those that would be eager to pay for this service. Problem with that is that if that ratio applies to 3000, the amount of paying subscribers would only be 600 people. That would not be a good statistic to keep sponsors around. Finally, how many people have doctors that pay you when they give you a check up? I wouldn't expect a mechanic to come on here and pay to give advice either. Alex
Joe V, that was what was great about Ferrarichat, it was unique from the other message boards. I agree that the software is better off, but the change will just take a while to get used to.
We all pay a lot of money for our favorite magazine subscriptions and other club memberships....why should F-Chat be any different ? You all joined the other clubs that you may belong to for the same reasons as you joined F-Chat......didn't you ? And.......in the case of some of the clubs, was the membership process a lot more selective and onerous that simply paying Rob a small sum of money equivalent to half a tank of gas in your Ferrari ? I'd happily pay $50 USD a year for the privilege of being admitted here, and have the ability to interact and gain insight from those who love Ferrari and all things exotic (with wheels and engines of course). Some of the knowledge I have already gained from F-Chat in the mere 6 months that I have participated here would have repaid that enormous $50 sum at least 100 times over. Rob......contact Bira, the editor of www.atlasf1.com and also contact Johan of www.airliners.net as their sites recently went thru what you will be doing here. FWIW.......their sites did not experience ANYTHING of what the naysayers who speak out here are saying. 'Nuff said.
Here's a thought: For all that are against a fee for FChat, do you subscribe to a magazine or newpaper? Have you gone to the publishers and asked for it for free? Both the magazines and newspapers you subscribe to have paid advertising and also charge the reader...Whats the dif here?
umm... cable? that would be 40 a month anyway, I'm not sure charging is the best thing for the site, but we've seen Rob's views on it - he is steadfast in his ways And really, I doubt the sponsors are paying that much - maybe I'm wrong. But even if they were, this forum costs probably 500-1000 a month to run, don't forget that.
KDS, looking at the member roster of airliners.net leads me to believe that a significant amount of people chose not to sign up for the paid subscription. Look here: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/userlist.main?&nr_of_rows=10650&first_this_page=140&page_limit=70&sort_order=&thumbnails=&engine_version=&nr_pages=153&page=0 I'm assuming the "First Class" means they signed up. TV is free, only basic channels though. As for sponsors, $500 a month on this site seems to ring a bell for some reason, but that seems high. I should only speak for sites that I have my hands on and based on that, $300 is not unrealistic. (Course, everything is negotiable like long term commitments.)
With all due respect, I think the folks who are saying a fee should be mandatory probably don't have a lot of experience with web forums and the "dot com" world. There are literally thousands of special interest forums out there, and I have never seen one that charges an admission fee to operate. I have zero doubt that doing so would severely cripple this site. If I had to pay just to log on, I wouldn't bother. There are 50 other forums that have sections about Ferrari, and when I pay for something, I expect to know what I would be getting in return. If you pay for a service that is founded on the contributions of the members, then you really can't make any guarantees about anything. Maybe the users will dissappear tomorrow? Who knows. The thing folks are forgetting with the magazine comparison is that magazines have professionals on staff to create content that is useful to the users. If Rob were doing monthly road tests on various Ferraris, paying technical experts to answer questions authoriatatively, and had a staff of folks creating interesting content, then sure, I would say it is comparable. But considering the value is the user base, I don't think it is comparable, because Rob created the means to enable the USERS to create the value. That is no slight against Rob - he made something great and should reap the rewards, but I think it would be a death bell for this site to require membership. You would virtually eliminate new registrations, and as people disappear one by one, it withers and dies. Regarding the "stock option" plan, I think that is a horrendous idea. The reason is now Rob is giving away ownership of the site, and he's now a paid (or is he even paid?) employee. What if a shareholder feels slighted by something said? Or doesn't like a pic that was posted? Or doesn't like the direction his thread took? You can't just tell those people to leave anymore - because they own the site. What if Tony Roberts bought 1,000 shares - or someone benign bought them and became a "Tony Roberts"? Or Allan Lambo bought 10,000 shares and was the biggest shareholder? I'm just using examples. But whereas with donations the may carry more weight, with ownership there are many more complications as to their status. The best idea, by far, is to leave the site as free. Let there be enhanced features that come with a price - who knows what they will be, but an avatar, a signature, a t-shirt, access to use an image gallery and such are good ideas. Look at it this way... the folks who are saying they would pay - is it because you WANT to pay or because you would be FORCED to pay? I bet most just want to help cover the costs of the site. Ok, those folks can still pay. How many people WOULD pay if they were forced to that otherwise would not pay? I don't think too many would. Weigh that number against how many would leave if forced to pay and also add in the loss of sponsors or reduction in sponsor fees (less users = less fees) and see if it's worth it - I can already tell you it wouldn't be.
I agree with Mike. There's a multitude of excellent absolutely free boards on the net. I have donated, but have not been forced to pay for a message board membership. There's no question an excellent free Ferrari site will pop up as a competitor. It's Rob's site so of course he can and should impliment the pay system if he wants too, but there's no doubt in my mind that the site will not be what it once was. It is a business for Rob already, aren't the Ferrarichat.com race team 'sponsors' how he got the 355 Challenge? I've also always been under the impression that the Advertisters pay for the user base. Any advertisers in the house..how do you feel it will effect you?
Hell, lets make it a truly prestigious forum! Lets charge $150 a year. I bet at least half the people that say no also have an American Express card that they pay that much a year for (or a Gold card @ $300 a year). I have always said in regard to this forum, you don't know what you got 'till its gone.
What the hell are you thinking? Yes, I will give free tech advice and not gain anything but helping other F car owners out but yes I think I should pay $10 for this great service. Bull****!!!! That was the dumbest thing I have ever heard. It isn't a slap in the face. I appreciate the site but **** he asked to take over the expensive car archives. I was happy posting there. (we used to post on this site and it was so simple but still effective) I never asked for a site to post pics, load tons of info. Half of the space wasted is discussing who has a bigger **** by whether they drive a Lambo or a 12 cylinder Ferrari. If you disagree with techs having to pay then you are either full of **** or know nothing about repairing your Ferrari. Lets talk about JRV; if anything he should be charging since he answers all of the questions on his site for free. I would say he knows his **** too. Anyway, do what ever you want with the site but I can't stand people who are full of ****. It is easy to talk about something you know nothing about.
ok how are you going to compare this to a magazine or a news paper, this forum with out us is useless....the thing that makes forums great is signing on and having more posts to read. if you narrow the membership down to the select few that want to pay then your gonna get screwed cause no new people are going to sign up, and the ones that pay are going to run out of things to talk about. Taking to the same people gets old. then the forum will have no posts and people wont want to renwe their yearly subscriptions to something that has 15 new posts a day. For those of you who want to pay, group yourselves together and sponsor the site. more sponsors the merrier i am sure. But making people pay to read and post will be the downfall of the forum....trust me
Please view the other thread on this topic for some of my responses (in bold). Kinda funny all the drama queens like this is the end of the world. I haven't done anything yet. http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306 Also, someone in this thread stated only 20% would support a paid site. Well, that poll and the ones I've done in the past are all 60-80% would pay. Many of the votes were before I made my comments. People are making some pretty wrong assumptions about my plans.
Just an idea, maybe Rob can set up the General Discussion area as free, and put the Technical area where you pay to post a new thread, but pay nothing to reply. OK, is this too complicated?
